harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (Full Version)

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Krupinski -> harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/28/2020 7:37:04 PM)

Did the patch make the game for the germans much harder?

Before it was relatively easy for me to get the west front.

Now it is almost impossible. Good weather, i ordered all of my aircraft to attack an enemy tank corps (stukas, tactical bombers etc) but no damage (=0).

Second, my panzer divisions stuck in fight in open ground with france infantry. Before, the panzers take them for breakfast.

Cheers [:D]



ncc1701e -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/28/2020 7:57:18 PM)

I am not there yet but just an assumption. Did you take into account those new rules during your attack?

quote:

Change land units not next to enemy land units suffer no strength point losses from air strikes. An attrition 1 point manpower loss will be taken instead.

Change no more manpower loss from air attacks. Air units can only now damage strength on land units next to an enemy land unit and only on the first air strike. Other air strikes still can reduce the effectiveness of the unit and interdict movement.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/28/2020 9:04:06 PM)

Actually it made it better for the Axis later in the war. The air power needed better balancing if that is what you are speaking of. It was easier to bomb units for production than cities.



MorningDew -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/28/2020 9:58:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Krupinski

Did the patch make the game for the germans much harder?

Before it was relatively easy for me to get the west front.

Cheers [:D]


I believe that aircraft do a lot less strength loss, but still impact effectiveness. Also, weather was modified so you don't get "clear/cold" late fall, winter, early spring days on Western front.

So yes, in terms of early game , it is harder on the Germans.



Krupinski -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/28/2020 11:13:34 PM)

Westfront 40: the french are destroying my tank divisons with ease. It feld not quite right after the latest patch. I played almost every comuputer-based-ww2-wargames in the past 30 years, so i think i can judge it a bit (maybe my brain is too old to compete the ai).

Dont get me wrong: I am enjoying the game a lot - one of my favorites so far - but after the patch the french are just a bit too strong in `40. Historical their morale were very bad and their combat power was not nearly has good as the highly morale germans.



sveint -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/28/2020 11:42:20 PM)

I'm sorry but if you are losing tank units to the AI you need to change your tactics. I found the AI a complete walkover in my first 1.06 game.

This is I think the first WW2 game I play where the 1940 campaign actually feels right.

Edit: To be more constructive: I'm new to the game but here is how I played against AI.
1. Bomb units once or twice, don't concentrate on a single unit. Keeps the French units disorganized.
2. Use infantry to assault, panzers to exploit. Avoid set battles as much as possible with the panzers.
3. The AI doesn't really understand retreats and is very predictable. Exploit this to destroy units.
4. Don't expect to proceed faster than historical... historically the Allies let themselves be surrounded.
Even the AI doesn't do that here.



Krupinski -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/28/2020 11:48:41 PM)

Tried the manstein-plan. Coming from belgium: Tanks ahead (strengthened with artillery), choose the weakest point, breakthrough, before - soften with stukas and taktical bombers. infantry follows. try to secure the flanks. no unit without less then 6-7 points. but there is every time the situation, where my "panzerblitz" gets surrounded by 3 enemy inf units on the way to paris.

I will try again. thx

Question @sveint: you match the historical time frame in the west?



sveint -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/28/2020 11:56:59 PM)

Sorry I stopped playing before I took Paris. I think I was slightly behind historical.

I've now started multiplayer (one as Axis, two as Allies) and I have to say, you may be right in multiplayer. We'll see.



Krupinski -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/29/2020 12:00:42 AM)

Thanx for your answer. My problems are beginning on half way to paris when my attack corridor is not wide enough to secure the flanks of my tanks, not before.



Krupinski -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/29/2020 12:11:16 AM)

For example: In the advance you see my strong tank unit (8 points with heavy artillery). In the next round it is shattered. the other tank unit takes recovery from the frontline.

Btw: Poland (Fall weiss) is much easier with the patch. The problem is france.


[img]https://iili.io/JffG0G.jpg[/img]



sveint -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/29/2020 12:29:15 AM)

Why are your HQs so close to the front? And your air units are completely exhausted. Do the Allies have air superiority?

That panzer is far too exposed since the entire French army and the BEF are in play and well positioned. Also, it cannot retreat.

I'd go for the French 7-5 near Lille and the 6-5 in the Ardennes that cannot retreat.

EDIT: Also you only have 2 panzers? Should have 3 or 4 by now. And maybe more air.



ncc1701e -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/29/2020 5:23:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

1. Bomb units once or twice, don't concentrate on a single unit. Keeps the French units disorganized.
2. Use infantry to assault, panzers to exploit. Avoid set battles as much as possible with the panzers.
3. The AI doesn't really understand retreats and is very predictable. Exploit this to destroy units.
4. Don't expect to proceed faster than historical... historically the Allies let themselves be surrounded.
Even the AI doesn't do that here.


Some very good advices here. [:)]



ncc1701e -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/29/2020 5:28:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

Also you only have 2 panzers? Should have 3 or 4 by now.


Very good point here also. I suggest that you start Europe 1940 scenario with Germany ready for invasion.
Do some training with this Europe 1940 scenario as much as possible.

I have just done few turns with 1.00.06 patch. Fall Gelb is perfectly achievable. And, by the way, this is why I love this game. We can recreate Fall Gelb not the Schlieffen Plan... Well done Alvaro. [:)]

See German OOB in Europe 1940 scenario:
1. Two Mechanized corps
2. Four Armor corps

[image]local://upfiles/46661/61ECC92BC99B419498310B2980F25F97.jpg[/image]



ncc1701e -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/29/2020 5:31:41 AM)

In the first turn, you must concentrate on the Dutch and on Belgium. You must take them out of war.

You have two objectives:
1. Capture Amsterdam
2. Capture Brussels

And, put your Armor / Mechanized corps in a good position for next turn...

[image]local://upfiles/46661/33341A869BB94D8BB4EC194F97A0D3B1.jpg[/image]



ncc1701e -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/29/2020 5:35:05 AM)

At the beginning of the second turn, you have only the French and the BEF remaining in front of you.
This is time to avoid Lille and to go to the sea through Saint Quentin.

Avoid any direct battle with your Armor or your Mechanized corps.
Exploit, exploit, exploit.

[image]local://upfiles/46661/ABE3066D14144B3E865141B72211B649.jpg[/image]



ncc1701e -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/29/2020 5:38:50 AM)

At the end of the second turn, you must reach the sea. BEF and the French corps in Lille are now out of supply.

I have even managed to capture Calais harbor. Impossible for the BEF to go back in England. [:)]

[image]local://upfiles/46661/4507C5E4AC5344B9B0833FBD84C73EF9.jpg[/image]



ncc1701e -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/29/2020 5:44:15 AM)

In the third turn, you have now two objectives:
1. Finish BEF and reduce the Lille pocket
2. Capture Paris

This is the situation at the end of the third turn.

[image]local://upfiles/46661/2EBA9B9D35454779B0F2AF35E465025F.jpg[/image]



ncc1701e -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/29/2020 5:48:38 AM)

At the beginning of the fourth turn, you will receive a message to negotiate surrender.

Of course, this is against AI. In a PBEM, it can be more challenging.

Again, do some training with Europe 1940 scenario as much as possible.
You will see your improvements quickly.

[image]local://upfiles/46661/8FD1BF10652742A5BCB3096F18F94220.jpg[/image]



sveint -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/29/2020 7:18:47 AM)

I have to say ncc1701e, that is a fantastic tutorial.



Krupinski -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/29/2020 8:02:31 AM)

Thank you so much for the great tutorial![&o][&o][&o]

I will do it as described.[:)]

PS. Tried the `40 scenario: it feld very "histroic" - great!
I guess my fauld was to start "Fall Gelb" without stong tank and mechanised forces.





Krupinski -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/29/2020 9:39:24 AM)

once again: double post (cant delete it sorry)



battlevonwar -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/29/2020 9:41:06 AM)

I really failed bad in my last few German ~ French TakeDowns but PBEM the new rules are better on the Axis cause the Axis cannot afford the air that the Allies can nor come inherently with so many. Games were getting really one sided before this patch. Axis had little chance without a weak Allied Opponent(I am still learning the Allies)

Axis need more tanks than CAS and Fighters so if you're forced to like in the ole rules build tons of those you really lack the ground units to do maximum damage...

but I still find that a little luck, good weather, and a few errors change games drastically early on especially! 2 or 3 units lost can rearrange the game or a few undefended sectors for the Allies or Axis.



ncc1701e -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/29/2020 10:05:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

I have to say ncc1701e, that is a fantastic tutorial.


Thanks, so you will apply it against me now? [;)] [:-]



ncc1701e -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/29/2020 10:08:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Krupinski

Thank you so much for the great tutorial![&o][&o][&o]

I will do it as described.[:)]

PS. Tried the `40 scenario: it feld very "histroic" - great!
I guess my fault was to start "Fall Gelb" without strong tank and mechanized forces.


Thanks and yes, building more mobile forces is critical. I will put this tutorial with more advice in the War Room section.



ncc1701e -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/29/2020 11:02:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e


quote:

ORIGINAL: Krupinski

Thank you so much for the great tutorial![&o][&o][&o]

I will do it as described.[:)]

PS. Tried the `40 scenario: it feld very "histroic" - great!
I guess my fault was to start "Fall Gelb" without strong tank and mechanized forces.


Thanks and yes, building more mobile forces is critical. I will put this tutorial with more advice in the War Room section.


Here it is with few tips on how to produce those armor and mechanized units in time:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4784371

Cheers



sveint -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/29/2020 8:28:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Thanks, so you will apply it against me now? [;)] [:-]


Sorry no I have other plans. And I don't think I'm that good tactically yet.



Nachtmahr667 -> RE: harder for the germans after 1.00.06? (3/31/2020 10:54:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Krupinski

[img]https://iili.io/JffG0G.jpg[/img]


Those are some nice-looking counters! May I ask what mod you are using?

Nevermind. I found it >.< WP NATOs_v3.0 – Counter Mod , right?



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