RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (Full Version)

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Lobster -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/16/2020 9:50:28 PM)

COVID-19 CORONAVIRUS / TRANSMISSION
SARS-CoV-2 Transmission
Last updated: April 16, 5:00 GMT
"COVID-19 is a new disease and we are still learning about how it spreads" according to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)

In general, respiratory virus infection can occur through:

contact (direct or indirect)
droplet spray in short range transmission
aerosol in long-range transmission (airborne transmission)
Close Contact (6 feet, 1.8 meters) and Respiratory Droplets
"The virus is thought to spread mainly from person-to-person.

Between people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet)
Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes or talks" [source]
This idea, that large droplets of virus-laden mucus are the primary mode of transmission, guides the US CDC's advice to maintain at least a 6-foot distance: "Maintaining good social distance (about 6 feet) is very important in preventing the spread of COVID-19" [source]

Is 6 feet enough?
Some experts contacted by LiveScience think that 6 feet (1.8 meters) is not enough [source]

Air Currents
"Larger respiratory droplets (>5 μm) remain in the air for only a short time and travel only short distances, generally <1 m" (less than 3.3 feet) [source] [source] [source]

"Virus-laden small (<5 μm) aerosolized droplets can remain in the air and travel long distances, >1 m" (more than 3.3 feet) [source] [source]

A study of transmission occurring in a restaurant between people at a distance above 1 meter, observed that "strong airflow from the air conditioner could have propagated droplets" [source]

Humidity (best if between 50% and 80%)
"It is assumed that temperature and humidity modulate the viability of viruses by affecting the properties of viral surface proteins and lipid membrane" [source] Relative humidity (RH, or Saturation Ratio: the state of vapor equilibrium in room air) affects all infectious droplets with respiratory viruses, independent of their source (respiratory tract or aerosolized from any fluid) and location (in air or settled on surfaces). Relative humidity therefore affects all transmission ways but has the most pronounced effect on airborne transmission. [source]

"Measurements of indoor humidities in 40 residential apartments in New York (19) and in 6 high-quality commercial buildings in the Midwest (20) showed indoor vapor pressure of below 10 mb or indoor RH of below 24% in the winter" [source]

Experiments conducted in a study indicated "a striking correlation of the stability of winter viruses at low RH (20–50%), while the stability of summer or all-year viruses enhanced at higher RH (80%)" [source]

Airborne Transmission
The WHO states that "Respiratory infections can be transmitted through droplets of different sizes: when the droplet particles are >5-10 μm in diameter they are referred to as respiratory droplets, and when they are <5μm in diameter, they are referred to as droplet nuclei. According to current evidence, COVID-19 virus is primarily transmitted between people through respiratory droplets and contact routes" [source]

The WHO defines airborne transmission as "the spread of an infectious agent caused by the dissemination of droplet nuclei that remain infectious when suspended in air over long distances and time" [source]

Air Distance: up to 4 meters (13 feet) might be possible (in hospitals)
"The maximum transmission distance of SARS-CoV-2 aerosol might be 4 m" (13.1 feet), according to a study published on April 10 on Emerging Infectious Diseases, a journal of the US CDC which also found that "SARS-CoV-2 was widely distributed in the air and on object surfaces in both the ICU and general ward (GW), implying a potentially high infection risk for medical staff and other close contacts" [source]

This is true in a hospital setting and doesn't necessarily apply to other settings. The WHO says that "in the context of COVID-19, airborne transmission may be possible in specific circumstances and settings in which procedures or support treatments that generate aerosols are performed; i.e., endotracheal intubation, bronchoscopy, open suctioning, administration of nebulized treatment, manual ventilation before intubation, turning the patient to the prone position, disconnecting the patient from the ventilator, non-invasive positive-pressure ventilation, tracheostomy, and cardiopulmonary resuscitation" [source]

And concludes that "further studies are needed to determine whether it is possible to detect COVID-19 virus in air samples from patient rooms where no procedures or support treatments that generate aerosols are ongoing" [source]

Air Duration: up to 3 hours (but not in normal conditions, according to WHO)
Virus can remain viable "in aerosols up to 3 hours" found a study published in The New England Journal of Medicine on March 17 [source]

The WHO notes that these findings need to be interpreted carefully: "in this experimental study, aerosols were generated using a three-jet Collison nebulizer and fed into a Goldberg drum under controlled laboratory conditions. This is a high-powered machine that does not reflect normal human cough conditions. Further, the finding of COVID-19 virus in aerosol particles up to 3 hours does not reflect a clinical setting in which aerosol-generating procedures are performed - that is, this was an experimentally induced aerosol-generating procedure" [source]

Objects and Surfaces
The virus could spread by touching an object or surface with virus present from an infected person, and then touching the mouth, nose or eyes.

Surface contamination as observed in the study cited above [source]:

Computer mouse (ICU 6/8, 75%; GW 1/5, 20%)
Trash cans (ICU 3/5, 60%; GW 0/8)
Sickbed handrails (ICU 6/14, 42.9%; GW 0/12)
Doorknobs (GW 1/12, 8.3%)
76.5% of all personal items sampled at the University of Nebraska Medical Center (UNMC) were determined to be positive for SARS-CoV-2 [source]

Of these samples, 81.3% of the miscellaneous personal items were positive by PCR, which included:

Exercise equipment
Medical equipment (spirometer, pulse oximeter, nasal cannula)
PC and iPads
Reading glasses

Other findings:

Cellular phones (83.3% positive for viral RNA)
Remote controls for in-room TVs (64.7% percent positive)
Toilets (81.0% positive)
Room surfaces (80.4% of all sampled)
Bedside tables and bed rails (75.0%)
Window ledges (81.8%)
Duration of contamination on objects and surfaces
Although the virus titer was greatly reduced, viable SARS-CoV-2 was measured for this length of time:

Plastic: up to 2-3 days
Stainless Steel: up to 2-3 days
Cardboard: up to 1 day
Copper: up to 4 hours
[source]

Floor
"The rate of positivity was relatively high for floor swab samples (ICU 7/10, 70%; GW 2/13, 15.4%), perhaps because of gravity and air flow causing most virus droplets to float to the ground.

In addition, as medical staff walk around the ward, the virus can be tracked all over the floor, as indicated by the 100% rate of positivity from the floor in the pharmacy, where there were no patients.

Furthermore, half of the samples from the soles of the ICU medical staff shoes tested positive. Therefore, the soles of medical staff shoes might function as carriers. The 3 weak positive results from the floor of dressing room 4 might also arise from these carriers. We highly recommend that persons disinfect shoe soles before walking out of wards containing COVID-19 patients."


https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/transmission/





z1812 -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/17/2020 3:30:00 AM)

@Lobster, Good post!




Curtis Lemay -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/17/2020 3:10:45 PM)

Today's worldwide figures:

[image]local://upfiles/14086/8654486421804D6B82014A433411B237.jpg[/image]




MrRoadrunner -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/17/2020 3:17:14 PM)

146,291/2,173,432 = 7%

RR




loki100 -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/17/2020 3:45:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

Today's worldwide figures:

...


are you still seeing 100% mortality rates in the Republic of Ireland?




PipFromSlitherine -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/17/2020 5:35:15 PM)

Guys, I am not sure these discussions are especially useful. Remember:

[image]https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/garbage_math.png[/image]

https://m.xkcd.com/2295/

Cheers

Pip





MrsWargamer -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/17/2020 5:54:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine

Guys, I am not sure these discussions are especially useful. Remember:

[image]https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/garbage_math.png[/image]

https://m.xkcd.com/2295/

Cheers

Pip





Love it :)




balto -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/17/2020 6:01:51 PM)

That is great. Add to that "Stats are like the bible, you can make them support whatever you want them to support." Some like to support Gloom and Doom (Matrix Legion of Dongs) and some like to view it that things are getting better and everything will be okay very soon.




Lobster -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/17/2020 9:42:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: balto


and some like to view it that things are getting better and everything will be okay very soon.


Also Matrix Legion of Dongs. [:D]

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/04/1061032
https://thehill.com/policy/international/489783-united-nations-warns-of-global-food-shortage-caused-by-coronavirus
https://allianceforscience.cornell.edu/blog/2020/04/coronavirus-presents-looming-food-crisis-fao-warns/
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/30/coronavirus-food-crisis-looms-as-farms-idle-countries-hoard-supplies.html
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/14/how-to-stop-food-crisis-coronavirus-economy-trade/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/01/business/food-supply-chains-coronavirus/index.html




Curtis Lemay -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/18/2020 2:59:05 PM)

Today's worldwide figures:

[image]local://upfiles/14086/4C1BC7561F2142ABAAE368B83DB673DF.jpg[/image]




Curtis Lemay -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/18/2020 3:01:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

Today's worldwide figures:

...


are you still seeing 100% mortality rates in the Republic of Ireland?

Only the worldwide figures have any validity. This is a worldwide pandemic with people moving all over the globe. Cherry picking one set of figures from one country is bogus practice.




Red2112 -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/18/2020 3:41:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

quote:

ORIGINAL: balto


and some like to view it that things are getting better and everything will be okay very soon.


Also Matrix Legion of Dongs. [:D]

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/04/1061032
https://thehill.com/policy/international/489783-united-nations-warns-of-global-food-shortage-caused-by-coronavirus
https://allianceforscience.cornell.edu/blog/2020/04/coronavirus-presents-looming-food-crisis-fao-warns/
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/30/coronavirus-food-crisis-looms-as-farms-idle-countries-hoard-supplies.html
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/14/how-to-stop-food-crisis-coronavirus-economy-trade/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/01/business/food-supply-chains-coronavirus/index.html



Be careful, you might be taged as a pro-conspiracy activist!

Which brings me to the last 3-4 pages with no censorship being applied. Must be in a good mood, and/or preference to whom speaks/writes. I belive the latter...

Just goes to show, way to go Matrix!

--




MrRoadrunner -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/18/2020 3:59:44 PM)

156,119/2,276,473 = 7%

RR




loki100 -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/18/2020 4:58:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

Today's worldwide figures:

...


are you still seeing 100% mortality rates in the Republic of Ireland?

Only the worldwide figures have any validity. This is a worldwide pandemic with people moving all over the globe. Cherry picking one set of figures from one country is bogus practice.


always get mixed up, is consistency the hobgoblin or the orc of small minds:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

my point is I cited official figures from the Republic of Ireland (& that apply purely in the Republic). Now since they have a substantial degree of wider testing and contact tracing they probably are more accurate than those reported by many states - in effect they are capturing a lot more of the 'ill but not hospitalised' than say England.


The figures I have for Ireland are 12547 cases and 444 deaths. No recoveries. That's from the ECDC.

I'm open to credible evidence to the contrary, but no one has sourced any yet.

And no one's credentials are evidence of anything.






Lobster -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/18/2020 5:31:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red2112

Be careful, you might be taged as a pro-conspiracy activist!



I love conspiracies. They make good movies. [;)]




rico21 -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/19/2020 11:00:14 AM)

Faced with the coronavirus, “we have all become Native Americans! "
The helplessness of the most isolated tribes of Brazil in the face of the disease is also ours. And our thirst for growth exposes us to dangers we thought were a thing of the past, notes anthropologist Bruce Albert in a column in "The World".
On April 9, the new SARS-CoV-2 virus made its first fatal victim among the Yanomami people. He is a 15-year-old adolescent from a community in the Rio Uraricoera basin in Brazil, massively invaded by illegal gold panners.
With characteristic respiratory symptoms, the young man, Alvaney Xirixana, malnourished and anemic due to successive malaria attacks, was, for 21 days, discharged from one health institution to another, with a simple prescription of antibiotics, without ever being tested for Covid-19. He will not be finally tested until April 3, after a new hospitalization, this time in a critical state requiring his putting on a respirator and will die on April 9. Alvaney, a victim of the absurd neglect of local health services, probably became, despite himself, after many contacts he had had for three weeks with members of his community, with his friends and with the health workers, a "broadcaster" of the disease. The imminent threat of a new major health disaster is thus again hanging over the Yanomami today.
These people have already experienced deadly epidemics (notably measles and respiratory infections) with each appearance of new protagonists of the "white border" on their territory: in the 1940s with the Borders Commission, in the 1950s with the Indian protection service, in the 1960s with the evangelical missionaries and, in the 1970s, with the opening of a section of the Transamazonian. Since the late 1980s, and regularly since, its territory has been invaded by hordes of clandestine gold miners - there are now around 25,000 - who are very likely to be at the origin of this first case of Covid- 19, in addition to the spread (among others) of malaria, influenza, tuberculosis and sexually transmitted diseases.
The case of Alvaney Xirixana is the tragic symbol of the extreme vulnerability in which the Amerindian peoples (and all indigenous peoples) find themselves in the face of the contagiousness and virulence of SARS-CoV-2. Already massively contaminated by whites who invade their lands to extract minerals, wood or wild animals, without access to decent health care, they are, once again, doomed outright to decimation in almost general indifference.
Newspaper "Le Monde".




Orm -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/19/2020 11:40:20 AM)

I feel like I am distrustful of an article that uses the term "whites" as a term for the villainous invaders. Especially when they do not have any figures of the different ethnicities of this group. It actually feel racist to me. But, on the other hand, what do I know, maybe there are all 100% "white". Although I seriously doubt that.




Orm -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/19/2020 11:49:51 AM)

Thank you, rico21, for sharing. Interesting reading.




TulliusDetritus -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/19/2020 1:56:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
I love conspiracies. They make good movies. [;)]


Same here, for some reason I visit their nests on youtube from time to time, just for the lulz. They tend to attract a really weird fauna. They always deliver and never disappoint [:D]

Now there are MacConspiracies and Big Mac Conspiracies
[image]local://upfiles/11562/8668A7BD5D624707A50B7EBCC64D9675.jpg[/image]

re Covid-19, a lot of people are saying we won't be back to "normal" from coronavirus pandemic anytime soon [:(] And besides, we are only on phase II now (Europe + the US are the epicenters). Phase III has always been (to WHO) the really scary scenario: the day the virus strikes in the global south.

It might not kill like the Spanish Flu but it's definitely a phenomenon that the youngsters today will remember in 2080, 2090 [X(]





ernieschwitz -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/19/2020 2:29:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs
quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zap
" Its a crazy theory but is it possible they [China] see this a way eradicate some of their overcrowded population."


Crazy stuff. Who wrote this lunacy? A krokodil addict, no doubt.

And that's a good example on how conspiracy theories cannot grasp the most basic, elemental real world facts [:D]

In november 2013, the Chinese relaxed the one-child policy. Why? because the population pyramid is starting to look like the west's pyramid aka ageing populations. In other words, just like in the west, they need more babies now [;)]

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. Throw in some aliens though. Now if you're talking about a sordid plan like here and here [:D]

... and yet... eugenics are truly a quintessential anglo-saxon thing, my friend. Looks like we are dealing with psychological projection here eh hehe


Why do you constantly defend the Chinese Communist Government and their lies? The truth is that the Chinese created this virus and unleashed it first on their own people and then on the world. The Chinese Communists are to blame and bear full responsibility for all the deaths..

That is the truth, but you seem to be a denier of the facts and a defender of one of the most vile murderous and lying governments the world has seen. The evil Chinese Communists.


Quick! Intelligence services around the world, give this man a job! He knows stuff! :P




Curtis Lemay -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/19/2020 2:36:25 PM)

Today's worldwide figures:

[image]local://upfiles/14086/85334799565C4B288F9AD46FEC48D5F2.jpg[/image]




Curtis Lemay -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/19/2020 3:04:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

always get mixed up, is consistency the hobgoblin or the orc of small minds:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

my point is I cited official figures from the Republic of Ireland (& that apply purely in the Republic). Now since they have a substantial degree of wider testing and contact tracing they probably are more accurate than those reported by many states - in effect they are capturing a lot more of the 'ill but not hospitalised' than say England.


The figures I have for Ireland are 12547 cases and 444 deaths. No recoveries. That's from the ECDC.

I'm open to credible evidence to the contrary, but no one has sourced any yet.

And no one's credentials are evidence of anything.


I finally figured out what this “expert” was doing – none of the above whatsoever. He was just dividing the total deaths by the population of Ireland!! In other words, his “death rate” was the rate of death for just being in Ireland! Not the death rate for having COVID-19 – which is what matters. I tumbled to this because Trump did the same thing yesterday (not as deceptively as this guy, though).

The detail we need to know is that the population of Ireland is only 4.8 million. That’s 48 groups of 100,000. So, to have a death rate of only 7 per 100,000, Ireland can have no more than 48 x 7 = 336 total deaths. That was probably the case when this guy made his claim. Now it’s 571 deaths, meaning it can’t have a death rate below 11.9 per 100,000. And that assumes everyone in Ireland has acquired and recovered from the disease!

This emphasizes my most important point above: EVIDENCE TRUMPS CREDENTIALS!!!

Because if you don’t know the methodology used in someone’s figures, you can be suckered – as happened above. And remember that politicians (which is what the above “expert” is) are well motivated to put the rosiest spin on any situation. We can expect a flood of such figures soon from everywhere on Earth.

I repeat: I don’t care what your credentials are. What is your evidence?!!




RangerJoe -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/19/2020 3:06:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I feel like I am distrustful of an article that uses the term "whites" as a term for the villainous invaders. Especially when they do not have any figures of the different ethnicities of this group. It actually feel racist to me. But, on the other hand, what do I know, maybe there are all 100% "white". Although I seriously doubt that.


+1

A link to the article would also be nice.

It would also be nice to have a comparison of how the health service works for other members of society, whether he went to clinics or hospitals, et cetera.




TulliusDetritus -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/19/2020 3:32:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
A link to the article would also be nice.

It would also be nice to have a comparison of how the health service works for other members of society, whether he went to clinics or hospitals, et cetera.


https://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2020/04/19/covid-19-nous-sommes-tous-devenus-amerindiens_6037067_3232.html

Only the part that Rico pasted here is available. The rest is behind a paywall. Well, Brazil's healthcare system is not a state-of-the-art sector... it's the global south after all. Last week, they distributed cardboard coffins in Ecuador [;)] Healthcare personnel will do their best in NY, Ulan Bator or Papua New Guinea... but they all without exceptions need equipment, supplies. And when you think the phase II victims are being caught totally unprepared... imagine phase III (Brazil and Co)...




MrRoadrunner -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/19/2020 4:04:08 PM)

160,717/2,329,539 = 7%

RR




RangerJoe -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/19/2020 4:21:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
A link to the article would also be nice.

It would also be nice to have a comparison of how the health service works for other members of society, whether he went to clinics or hospitals, et cetera.


https://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2020/04/19/covid-19-nous-sommes-tous-devenus-amerindiens_6037067_3232.html

Only the part that Rico pasted here is available. The rest is behind a paywall. Well, Brazil's healthcare system is not a state-of-the-art sector... it's the global south after all. Last week, they distributed cardboard coffins in Ecuador [;)] Healthcare personnel will do their best in NY, Ulan Bator or Papua New Guinea... but they all without exceptions need equipment, supplies. And when you think the phase II victims are being caught totally unprepared... imagine phase III (Brazil and Co)...


Well, health institution is vague. It could mean anything from a shack with a nurse or a nurse practitioner to a full fledged hospital with all of the latest gadgets. He could have started out at the lowest tier which would have been closest to where he lived and ended up at a hospital with more testing and equipment available.

But the longer this goes on, the more effective treatments are known and, just as important, what NOT to do.




Lobster -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/19/2020 5:08:51 PM)

Interesting bit: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/health-52344676/coronavirus-possible-to-be-infected-with-covid-19-more-than-once




rico21 -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/19/2020 5:38:06 PM)

I will translate "white" by "those who have power".
I am a descendant of "white", my ancestors shed their blood all over the world; always to be enriched spiritually, and also it must be said materially. I do not endorse anything but I take on this heritage.
I don't judge anyone, others do it very well.[:D]
I'm just trying to understand ...[sm=00000117.gif]




RangerJoe -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/19/2020 6:07:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

always get mixed up, is consistency the hobgoblin or the orc of small minds:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

my point is I cited official figures from the Republic of Ireland (& that apply purely in the Republic). Now since they have a substantial degree of wider testing and contact tracing they probably are more accurate than those reported by many states - in effect they are capturing a lot more of the 'ill but not hospitalised' than say England.


The figures I have for Ireland are 12547 cases and 444 deaths. No recoveries. That's from the ECDC.

I'm open to credible evidence to the contrary, but no one has sourced any yet.

And no one's credentials are evidence of anything.


I finally figured out what this “expert” was doing – none of the above whatsoever. He was just dividing the total deaths by the population of Ireland!! In other words, his “death rate” was the rate of death for just being in Ireland! Not the death rate for having COVID-19 – which is what matters. I tumbled to this because Trump did the same thing yesterday (not as deceptively as this guy, though).

The detail we need to know is that the population of Ireland is only 4.8 million. That’s 48 groups of 100,000. So, to have a death rate of only 7 per 100,000, Ireland can have no more than 48 x 7 = 336 total deaths. That was probably the case when this guy made his claim. Now it’s 571 deaths, meaning it can’t have a death rate below 11.9 per 100,000. And that assumes everyone in Ireland has acquired and recovered from the disease!

This emphasizes my most important point above: EVIDENCE TRUMPS CREDENTIALS!!!

Because if you don’t know the methodology used in someone’s figures, you can be suckered – as happened above. And remember that politicians (which is what the above “expert” is) are well motivated to put the rosiest spin on any situation. We can expect a flood of such figures soon from everywhere on Earth.

I repeat: I don’t care what your credentials are. What is your evidence?!!


Yes, you should know about being suckered . . .




Lobster -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Part II (4/19/2020 6:26:13 PM)

This would not be surprising given that serious disease samples have been mishandled by the U.S. and a disease does not have to be engineered by a laboratory to escape a laboratory. They deal in natural viruses all the time. Sooner or later there was going to be a pandemic regardless of how it started. Escaped from a lab, passed from camels, bats or monkeys to people. In the end it's all the same and the end result will also be the same. Any thoughts on how long before a movie is made based on this virus?

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52318539




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