Veteran player advice needed..UK getting beat (Full Version)

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TotenkopfZZ -> Veteran player advice needed..UK getting beat (7/1/2001 12:39:00 PM)

Hey- I am playing in a campaign series with a pal of mine via email...as follows 1st battle UK v IT May '41 (UK won) 2nd battle UK v IT Nov'41 (UK won) 3rd battle UK v GE May '42 (GE won) 4th battle UK v GE Nov '42 (in progress) Final Battle UK v GE May '43 Winner is determined strictly by who has the most points and its whoever wins the most battles out of the five games. My question is this: Are there ANY good tactics for UK to use against GE to defeat their tanks? Since my opponent has started playing GE in the campaign it seems like my UK troops cannot do anything to defeat his armor. I have arty to suppress them, smoke screens to shield my approach and still the UK tanks get wasted when I engage GE tanks and Stugs. These are Churchill tanks I am using with good armor and high survive rate of 5. We are playing v 5.01 and YES OP fire is killing me, but even with the over accurate OP fire you would think UK would be able to kill SOME of the thin skinned GE tanks dont ya think? ANy hints, tactics etc? Thanks



Drex -> (7/1/2001 8:00:00 PM)

Use the 3"AA guns,buy plenty of them. they are the only guns that have decent range and can penetrate any german tank at that time. they are vulnerable so you need to buy them by the platoon. Use infantry in defensive mode around them. Locate them on promontory.Actually they are poor AA guns but excellent ATGs.



Warrior -> (7/1/2001 8:09:00 PM)

Play the "How to kill a Tiger" tutorial. It has good techniques. I use a lot of "shot & scoot" and hide-out when facing German tanks. They can be had, but it is risky. Don't hesitate to drop mortars on them, too, I've killed a Jadgpanther with 81mm's. [ July 01, 2001: Message edited by: Warrior ]



Zeromus -> (7/1/2001 8:47:00 PM)

Using small infantry squads such as scout teams is often a very good option. While they are easily destroyed by enemy infantry, they can often sneak up on a lonely enemy tank and win the game for you. Example. I was getting my ass kicked by a friend in a multiplayer game. He had picked 4 Panthers and I only had two KV-1's and some tank destroyers. While I was getting some kills, he eventually had two Panthers left against only one of my KV1s and my KV1 had a malfunction in it's main gun. I was sure of getting defeated but as I tried to hide that single KV-1, he had his tanks follow the single tank (he of course didn't know that my tank didn't have a cannon left and therefore considered it a threat). I had a single engineer squad and three scout teams hidden near his tanks as they followed my tank. I had the engineer squad attack one of the two Panthers, but they failed and dispersed. I was really despearate at this point, as the three scout teams and the crippled KV-1 were the only thing left between my extremely valuable 4 victory hexes and his Panthers. I threw the scout teams at the Panthers and they didn't notice the teams until they were in positions to assault. While the percentages usually are low when you're facing tougher tanks, using cheap infantry units to assault often works, however, while I now always use my remaining points on recon/scout teams, I really don't recommend on emphasizing on them, since they have little chance against enemy infantry. [ July 01, 2001: Message edited by: Zeromus ]



Alexandra -> (7/1/2001 9:21:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Drex: Use the 3"AA guns,buy plenty of them. they are the only guns that have decent range and can penetrate any german tank at that time. they are vulnerable so you need to buy them by the platoon. Use infantry in defensive mode around them. Locate them on promontory.Actually they are poor AA guns but excellent ATGs.
Only do this, however, if you're playing a-historically. Historically, UK High Command specifically ordered it's AA units to *not* enter the AT role, so that they could engage aircraft. So, how to deal with panzer's in the deserts historically? 'tilda's do well. There's also a little 2 ponder portee that can do decent, and anything with 6 pounders is fine for '42. Alex



General Mayhem -> (7/1/2001 10:33:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Zeromus: While the percentages usually are low when you're facing tougher tanks, using cheap infantry units to assault often works, however, while I now always use my remaining points on recon/scout teams, I really don't recommend on emphasizing on them, since they have little chance against enemy infantry. [ July 01, 2001: Message edited by: Zeromus ]
I can vouch for that! But I've noticed US Recon patrols with SMG's are pretty good now too. It really depends how one uses how good they are against what. In one campaing battle of 'Long, long road to Victory' I was defending in a low visibility battle against advancing germans. I was expecting tanks, so I put bazooka teams to first line near one road, and placed US recon platoon somewhat behind them as a reserve. Because terrain(I guess) germans came however with infantry squads there, and with bazookas teams M1's and especially with SMG's of recon patrols , I was able to drive them away. Most casualties were done by the Recon patrols SMG fire from distance of 2-3 hexes. And I moved the Recon troops near the Bazookas, the patrols were not in firing distance originally. In other battle in same campaign, I got Pz-IVH abandonet after it's fire caused my Sherman carrying Recon patrol to get abandoned. Range was something like 5-7 hexes between two tanks. Because the panzer got immobilized too, I shot some smoke on front of it after few turns doing nothing. Advanced with Recon patrol next to it's hex, started assaulting/attacking and got it abandoned in two turns. Don't know didn't they spot my recon troop or why, but PZ-IVH didn't shot back at all with any weapon in two turns. And I didn't shoot the PZ-IVH at all after my Sherman got abandoned by it's fire. However, later my crews re-occupied their Sherman that was abandoned in that small conflict. Lost only two of sherman crew in that small duel. :cool: Stuff the legends are made of. ;)



Alby -> (7/1/2001 10:39:00 PM)

When the german tanks become superior to the Brits in the war, I found that alot of 6pder AT guns work pretty decent. these things Seem to get alot of hits, sure they wont take out the gerrys best from the front but a good side shot will :D



sven -> (7/1/2001 10:40:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by General Mayhem: I can vouch for that! But I've noticed US Recon patrols with SMG's are pretty good now too. It really depends how one uses how good they are against what. In one campaing battle of 'Long, long road to Victory' I was defending in a low visibility battle against advancing germans. I was expecting tanks, so I put bazooka teams to first line near one road, and placed US recon platoon somewhat behind them as a reserve. Because terrain(I guess) germans came however with infantry squads there, and with bazookas teams M1's and especially with SMG's of recon patrols , I was able to drive them away. Most casualties were done by the Recon patrols SMG fire from distance of 2-3 hexes. And I moved the Recon troops near the Bazookas, the patrols were not in firing distance originally. In other battle in same campaign, I got Pz-IVH abandonet after it's fire caused my Sherman carrying Recon patrol to get abandoned. Range was something like 5-7 hexes between two tanks. Because the panzer got immobilized too, I shot some smoke on front of it after few turns doing nothing. Advanced with Recon patrol next to it's hex, started assaulting/attacking and got it abandoned in two turns. Don't know didn't they spot my recon troop or why, but PZ-IVH didn't shot back at all with any weapon in two turns. And I didn't shoot the PZ-IVH at all after my Sherman got abandoned by it's fire. However, later my crews re-occupied their Sherman that was abandoned in that small conflict. Lost only two of sherman crew in that small duel. :cool: Stuff the legends are made of. ;)
How does one reoccupy?



Warrior -> (7/1/2001 10:55:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by sven: How does one reoccupy?
If the crew is in the same hex as the vehicle and isn't fired on for a full turn, they will get back into the vehicle.



General Mayhem -> (7/1/2001 11:08:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by sven: How does one reoccupy?
I don't know exactly why or how, but what happened was that after my Sherman got fire(and got immobilized + other damage) remaining crew bailed out and I just left them there in the hex with the abandoned Sherman for many turns without anybody shooting at them. In few turns after I knocked off the immobilized PZ-IVH, I just noticed I had the Sherman back in use and no crew in the hex. Has happened atleast once before too. Far as I've figured out myself, crew needs to be certain number of turns in the hex with abandoned vehicle unsuppressed, propably without enemy in line of sight, to be able to reoccupy the abandoned vehicle. I've been wondering know can this work also by moving one crew to another units hex than their own that is abandoned. Occupying enemy tanks abandoned could cause some intresting situations, if it were possible.



Del -> (7/1/2001 11:26:00 PM)

In this game can any crew occupy an abandoned vehicle or does it have to be the crew that abandoned it?



Drex -> (7/2/2001 12:26:00 AM)

I'm sure Alexandra's right about the non-AT role of the #"AA gun but you can't keep them from Op-firing. You can set them up defensively for anti-air and if a tank gets in range the gunners will take a shot. this must have happened historically.



sinner -> (7/2/2001 2:24:00 AM)

To Del, As fas as I know, a crew can only re-ocupy its own vehicle/gun. Anyone can confirm this? This is my assumption and this is how I play the game. Although it would be nice to reocupy another gun sometimes :)



john g -> (7/4/2001 1:15:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Drex: I'm sure Alexandra's right about the non-AT role of the #"AA gun but you can't keep them from Op-firing. You can set them up defensively for anti-air and if a tank gets in range the gunners will take a shot. this must have happened historically.
British doctrine was that the AA gun not be used against armor. During Rommel's first assaults against Tobruk there is documentation of at least one gun firing against advancing armor. With the 2pdr, 6pdr, and 25 pd GH I guess they thought they had enough guns with AP shot issued. Of course this is from the same High Command that pushed paper thin tanks as the cruiser tanks. Not to mention the units that were using captured m13/40s because they didn't have enough British built tanks. I guess the German player picked the dates of the battles. Mighty coincidental dates there. thanks, John.



john g -> (7/4/2001 1:23:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by TotenkopfZZ: Hey- I am playing in a campaign series with a pal of mine via email...as follows 1st battle UK v IT May '41 (UK won) 2nd battle UK v IT Nov'41 (UK won) 3rd battle UK v GE May '42 (GE won) 4th battle UK v GE Nov '42 (in progress) Final Battle UK v GE May '43 Winner is determined strictly by who has the most points and its whoever wins the most battles out of the five games. My question is this: Are there ANY good tactics for UK to use against GE to defeat their tanks? Since my opponent has started playing GE in the campaign it seems like my UK troops cannot do anything to defeat his armor. ANy hints, tactics etc? Thanks
Late 42 you have 6 pdrs and Grant tanks. Early 43 you have 17pdrs. If all battles are meeting engagements, then the edge goes to the Germans in 42-43. If you could possibly be defending against him in either battle then you could have a chance. The easiest ways to take out Tigers (which is what I am guessing are giving you so much trouble) is in 43 to use 17pdrs to punch great big holes in them. In 42 you are better off trying to sneak engineers or commandos up next to them for close assaults, in that time frame no British tanks or arty can handle a properly used Tiger. Don't forget that engineers can lay mines during a game as well. Mines are another way of taking out heavy armor cheaply. thanks, John.



Larry Holt -> (7/4/2001 1:53:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Sinner from the Prairy: To Del, As fas as I know, a crew can only re-ocupy its own vehicle/gun. Anyone can confirm this? This is my assumption and this is how I play the game. Although it would be nice to reocupy another gun sometimes :)
This is correct.



IKerensky -> (7/4/2001 2:18:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Drex: I'm sure Alexandra's right about the non-AT role of the #"AA gun but you can't keep them from Op-firing. You can set them up defensively for anti-air and if a tank gets in range the gunners will take a shot. this must have happened historically.
Err,I am pretty much sure this hjavent cause historcally the UK AA guns team were only fielded with a handfull of AP round ( and believe me an handfull of 75mm round isn't that much ). Check teh europa magazine about the subject and it say that the british didnt even field AP round to those AA gun before late 1941.



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