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LargeDiameterBomb -> Is there any interest in including modernized Soviet equipment in the DB3000? (4/15/2020 5:56:09 PM)
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As many people probably know, there has grown up a whole sub-part of the global defense industry which specializes in modernizing old Soviet equipment.
Would the developers of CMO be open to including these modernized units in the DB3000, either as country-specific units where such data exists, or as generic or hypothetical units where no data exists on if a modernization has been implemented by any country?
For instance we have the very old P-18 Spoon Rest D radar for which numerous modernization pacakages seem to exist.
Here we have an offer from (What I assume are a Ukraiean firm: Ukroboronservice) with quite a lot of details on what parts have been upgraded and what the specifications of the new modernized version of the redar has available:
https://en.uos.ua/modernizatsiya/-vhf-surveillance-radar-p-18-upgrad
Another offer that is also quite detailed (But not as explicit as the above offer - and I don't presume to understand all of what it means in real world terms that certain parts have been upgraded) in what it offers is Hungarian Arzenal's P-18 modernization offer:
http://www.hmarzenal.hu/eng/defense-industry/p-18-radar.html
Other units that seem to be very popular units for modernization are the ZSU-23-4 Shilka, 2K12 Kub/SA-6 Gainful, S-125 Pechora/SA-3 Goa, S-75/SA-2 Guideline and some other older radars.
So, my first question is, would the developers be open to adding this kind of equipment to the DB3000?
I think that including at least one generic modification of each of these units would make the game more interesting and realistic.
Question 2: Are the developers open in principle to adding such units only if suitably detailed data can be found for versions of different modernization packages (This alternative would mean a specific unit and it's sensors, mounts and weapons would be added for an identified specific modernization package which has public details available at least as detailed as the above one for the Spoon Rest D from Ukroboronservice - although I personally would only wish to see one or two or at the absolute most three (In very specific cases where it can be clearly motivated) modernized versions of units such as those mentioned above included in the game - with a sensor name of for instance Spoon Rest D (P-18) (Ukrainean Modernized Version) and a unit name of Radar (Spoon Rest D - Ukrainean Modernized Version [P-18])
Question 3: Are the developers open in principle to adding generic modernized versions of units such as those mentioned above even if not as detailed data as one would wish can't be found about working frequencies, PRF, peak power, Signal to Noise ratio and so on for a specific radar and then instead just keep the data from the old unit and just raise the tech level from for instance Late 1960s to Late 1970s, adding for instance the MTI ticker if applicable for an old radar or adding modern electrooptics (IR Camera, TV Camera and LRF), removing the radar and making the targeting times much lower for a Shilka - sensors or mounts which would then have names such as Spoon Rest D (P-18) (Generic Modernization) and 23mm ZSU-23-4 (Generic Modernization) with unit names such as
AAA Plt/2 (23mm ZSU-23-4 Modernized Shilka x 2).
If there's no interest in including such units because of the extra work it means or perhaps more importantly, the confusion it would cause newcomers to the game, I completely understand.
Thanks in advance for the great work you do!
EDIT: This post was not meant only for the developers though I realize it might seem like that. I would gladly hear comments and thoughts from the community on this idea: if there is any interest in including these types of units, how to do it, if you find it unneccssary and so on, basically any comments are appreciated.
To put things in perspective and to explain why additions of a couple of these units would make things more interesting it might be of value to know that there are so many companies offering upgrades for the most commonly exported Soviet systems that the options are seemingly unlimited and states ranging from Syria and Iran to Ukraine to Hungary and most probably tens of other states, including several NATO members, have upgraded some or a lot of their old Soviet systems (which includes any type of land system relevant to CMO).
To take an example that is quite easy to understand why modifications are cost effective and can have a big effect:
The Shilka, which is equipped with four 23x152 mm autocannons with a total rate of fire of 3400 rounds per minute, is still in use in a lot of countries, was originally considered a very effective SPAAG system and is still considered a dangerous threat for any low-flying aircraft.
There has been very little revolutionary development of AAA cannons since when the Shilka was introduced: A reasonable assessment is that the only revolutionary development in the area of AAA cannons have been the introduction of "intelligent" proximity fuzes (for HE/PFHE projectiles) with much better signal processing and several different fuzing modes that combined with the introduction of fuze programmers and muzzle velocity meters have made some AAA weapons more deadly and versatile. But that only goes for what is commonly considered larger medium caliber weapons, approximately 35 mm and larger.
3400 rounds a minute of 23 mm projectiles fired from a reasonably accurate weapon is still as dangerous today as it was in the 60s to any low-flying aircraft within a mile (Meaning very dangerous) and the advancements since that time have primarily been made in the area of sensors, especially electrooptics, and in the area of combat management systems by way of automation of many functions of the target acquisition, aiming and firing process thanks to the introduction of microprocessors.
If a Shilka is upgraded with a modern faster combat management system and modern operating consoles, sensors consisting of a thermal imager, a day television or LLTV camera and a laser range-finder (Either removing the radar and adding a simple wire/radio datalink to receive target information from a stand-alone radar/IADS or replacing the radar with a more modern one) and possibly upgrading the turret drive to an electric system and introducing a stabilized and/or more precise gun laying system, one has a very potent and modern triple AAA system with high combat value for quite a reasonable prize. Some upgrade packages have also included integration of MANPADS missiles to the Shilka SPAAG.
A reaction time of let's say 6 to 8 seconds instead of 10 seconds, a 10 % higher hit probability and the ability to function in an ECM environment at night would make a reasonably big difference in-game.
To name just one instance where this would increase realism consider a scenario set during the late Syrian civil war including a limited open war (Instead of the proxy war that was) between the US and the Syrian armed forces, the latter which has, according to what I have read, most probably upgraded a lot of their older Soviet equipment, but the possible scenarios where modernized versions of common Soviet systems could be used to heighten realism are literally endless.
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