Playing time? (Full Version)

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Marco70 -> Playing time? (5/2/2020 10:27:48 AM)

I need help deciding if this game is for me. From what I understand, it's more of a passion than a game.
But how many hours do you need to invest in the WITP campaign? I've seen some videos, the first turn took 9 hours to do all the settings for the allies. In this one he was clicking every single unit / base and explains a lot, but many others were in the 3-4 hour range. Is this effort reduced in the following turns?
If a turn is a day, then the campaign lasted a decade of my time.

What do you think?



btd64 -> RE: Playing time? (5/2/2020 10:54:27 AM)

Welcome. Time spent depends on your experience with the game. As a new player you will spend a lot of time setting up your first couple of turns. but then they get easier. I've been playing this game for over 10 years and I still spend 6 to 8 hours setting up my first turn. But it is a lot of fun to me. Do you have the game yet? I would read some AAR's and play the smaller scenarios to start....GP



kbfchicago -> RE: Playing time? (5/2/2020 11:36:02 AM)

Concur with GP. Early turns are definitely a marathon, not a sprint. Some additional perspective...

The game is rich in detail, to include "games within the game". If you like that, you'll find yourself willingly spending more time on details like pilot training, production (Japanese only), Political Point strategy, etc.. Most of the posts I've seen over the years on the topic of time spent reflect experienced players get into a rythmn and complete typical turns in 45-90 minutes. That has been my experience as well.

You can speed the overall conduct of the game by stepping up the turn cycle. You have three options, 1 day, 2 day, or 3 day turns. Most on the forum play 1 day turns. Personally I'm an advocate for 2 day turns. You can see details on a recent discussion about this here: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4790036

If you like highly detailed, complex, mulitlayered strategy games, perhaps mixed with a love of history, then WITP-AE is likely for you. Which ever way you go...

Happy gaming,

Kevin



Yaab -> RE: Playing time? (5/2/2020 12:13:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marco70

I need help deciding if this game is for me. From what I understand, it's more of a passion than a game.
But how many hours do you need to invest in the WITP campaign? I've seen some videos, the first turn took 9 hours to do all the settings for the allies. In this one he was clicking every single unit / base and explains a lot, but many others were in the 3-4 hour range. Is this effort reduced in the following turns?
If a turn is a day, then the campaign lasted a decade of my time.

What do you think?


Yep, first turn is special. As Allies, it takes me 35-40hrs to setup the first turn, but I am methodical and give orders to most bases/units/ships/air groups following my own created checklist. The next few following turns can also take some time, since many LCUs and ships arrive at new destinations. But after that, I can process a turn in 1-1,5hrs, micro-managing things with much Tracker-gazing.




GetAssista -> RE: Playing time? (5/2/2020 1:44:36 PM)

Marco, if you are a perfectionist you will have a hard time. This game has a lot of details and loads of switches/valves/microdecisions to make to get everything exactly right. It is easier if you are more of a broad strategist with a casual view on details and minmaxing.

Still worth it in any case. But that's a biased point of view of course :D



Lowpe -> RE: Playing time? (5/2/2020 2:14:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Marco, if you are a perfectionist you will have a hard time. This game has a lot of details and loads of switches/valves/microdecisions to make to get everything exactly right. It is easier if you are more of a broad strategist with a casual view on details and minmaxing.

Still worth it in any case. But that's a biased point of view of course :D


I have done the first turn in pbems as Japan in as few as 15 minutes. The normal turn around probably averages around half and hour to an hour per turn after. I simply don't do everything at once -- it is a long war.




dr.hal -> RE: Playing time? (5/2/2020 2:34:49 PM)

Marco please try not to focus on the complexity of the game, for that need not be the deciding factor. If you are interested in obtaining a deeper understanding of the Pacific theater in WW2 and getting a better feel for the complexities of that campaign at the strategic level, then this game is for you no matter how complex. And make no mistake, this game is complex. I started playing the BOARD game version of this LONG before the computer version was even thought of (late 70s) and then switched over (gladly) to the various version of this Matrix game. I say this not to illustrate how old I am but to tell you that I'm still learning things about the game and the theater of operations. Yes it will demand your time, but it does get "easier" once understood. But that time will be enjoyable if your interests are as I have described AND if playing the Allies you don't mind getting your ass kicked for the first six months of the game! Enjoy.



Mike McCreery -> RE: Playing time? (5/2/2020 3:12:40 PM)

Lets forget the first 10 turns. After that it depends on the type of person you are.

Some people keep detailed notes, some just fly by their pants. Some need to check every unit every turn and some people set things up and forget them.

So, for each person it is different. In the normal game a turn takes me probably about 30 minutes to an hour to play. That excludes maintenance and planning. Because you do not have to change/move/alter every piece on every turn the game will speed up quickly after the beginning.




Marco70 -> RE: Playing time? (5/2/2020 6:02:26 PM)

Thanks for your numerous feedback, it helps me a lot.
Ok, i understand that the first round is more work than the following ones. Do i get messages in a clear way when my units finish their orders after one, two, three days, so i can minimize micromanagement per round?



Bo Rearguard -> RE: Playing time? (5/2/2020 7:20:56 PM)

Starting this game is sort of like cranking up a gargantuan machine. You spend hours, days, weeks depending on your patience tweaking and adjusting this dial, indicator or switch. However, once you finally hit the start button and the Pacific War colossus sputters to life and is up and running it kind of has its own momentum. All those convoys you dispatched across the vast ocean will be days if not weeks from their destinations. They won't require any more management unless they stumble across a submarine or stray into an area possibly covered by hostile air patrols. All those CAP and air training missions pretty much do their thing with no more input unless in direct conflict with the enemy. Most of the backwater area of the vast map is in relative peace. The hard part is sometimes remembering that task force you sent out days ago or that air squadron still languishing in the outback. Other exciting events come up at the front lines and you tend to overlook the routine things happening in the background.

But that's the beauty of the thing. [8D]



Mike McCreery -> RE: Playing time? (5/2/2020 7:25:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marco70

Thanks for your numerous feedback, it helps me a lot.
Ok, i understand that the first round is more work than the following ones. Do i get messages in a clear way when my units finish their orders after one, two, three days, so i can minimize micromanagement per round?


There is an operations report that will tell you when task forces and air groups arrive at bases. I dont think it is the same for armies so you have to check them. I just keep a list of moving units and expected arrival dates.



PaxMondo -> RE: Playing time? (5/2/2020 11:06:20 PM)

The first few turns are very long, then about an hour after that. Exceptions to that hour turn length are when setting up the next big action, offensively or defensively. Those turns look like an initial turn again as you are tasking 100's of units … but these aren't all that often. Then you watch it all play out, making little tweaks as you go. I look at it this way:

Strategic Turns: +3 hours. can be days.
Tactical Turns: 1 hour, or less.



jdsrae -> RE: Playing time? (5/3/2020 1:10:28 AM)

I recommend against trying to enter orders while watching Letterkenny at the same time



Dili -> RE: Playing time? (5/3/2020 3:08:29 AM)

In most calm days i could do a 15 min turn - but still have to see the turn playing so another 5 or so minutes on top of that. As Japan which is more complicated then Allies since it has industry to manage. In a big operation yes you can spend 2 days, by 2 days i mean 2-4 hours split by 2 days.

The biggest secrets of managing the game is to know to what detail you should deal and what detail you should not deal with. And never get loose the big picture, the attraction to predominantly think at tactically/local level is always present, at least for me.



jmscho -> RE: Playing time? (5/3/2020 7:36:36 AM)

When I came back to WitP-AE about 18 months ago, I was swamped by the increase in detail after playing a lot of WitP (pre AE) and having a break. However, I'd say I'm a bit of a data freak. Since then I've learnt about the detail. Initially using the spreadsheets in Kull's posts (thanks), and adapting them - sometimes a lot.
I only play Japan so have only had to understand half of the data involved.
First turn takes me about 8-10 hours over 4-5 days.
Subsequent turns take about 1 hour, but I do it in two sessions. First watching the combat replay and inspecting some units/bases/sightings for the effect of what has happened. Later, after mulling over what has happened and how my plans are going, I input the orders.
Future operation planning is done outside the normal game cycle - using dumps of data from Tracker.



Ian R -> RE: Playing time? (5/3/2020 2:06:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marco70

I need help deciding if this game is for me. From what I understand, it's more of a passion than a game.
But how many hours do you need to invest in the WITP campaign? I've seen some videos, the first turn took 9 hours to do all the settings for the allies. In this one he was clicking every single unit / base and explains a lot, but many others were in the 3-4 hour range. Is this effort reduced in the following turns?
If a turn is a day, then the campaign lasted a decade of my time.

What do you think?


If you go into a turn, and micromanage everything, every time, it not only takes a long time, but is probably creating inefficiencies - because you re-rout some cargo TF you already re-routed two days ago because you changed your mind or whatever. You may think all that micromanagement is squeezing every drop of logistics out, but you could be sailing things round in circles.

To create a more time-efficient game process, you can limit somethings to once a (game) week, e.g. -

- Do sub ops on Wednesday's

- Check your main supply origin ports and hub ports on Thursdays

- ship reinforcements out to the front lines on Friday

- check your pilots in training air groups on Saturday (could be a once a month job)

- check aircraft and ship upgrades on Sunday

Etc. I am sure once you start playing the game you will develop your own protocols.

Obviously there are exceptions, such as the arrival of a new capital ship, or the various bits of the 1st Marine Division being assembled ASAP.



kentcol -> RE: Playing time? (5/5/2020 12:29:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marco70

I need help deciding if this game is for me. From what I understand, it's more of a passion than a game.
But how many hours do you need to invest in the WITP campaign? I've seen some videos, the first turn took 9 hours to do all the settings for the allies. In this one he was clicking every single unit / base and explains a lot, but many others were in the 3-4 hour range. Is this effort reduced in the following turns?
If a turn is a day, then the campaign lasted a decade of my time.

What do you think?


Yep, first turn is special. As Allies, it takes me 35-40hrs to setup the first turn, but I am methodical and give orders to most bases/units/ships/air groups following my own created checklist. The next few following turns can also take some time, since many LCUs and ships arrive at new destinations. But after that, I can process a turn in 1-1,5hrs, micro-managing things with much Tracker-gazing.




Would you mind sharing your checklist?



BBfanboy -> RE: Playing time? (5/5/2020 5:43:09 AM)

Because I cannot remember stuff the way I used to, I label my convoys with their mission: e.g. 'Coastal AA 2 Noumea'. Then when I roll the cursor over it at sea, that label will show up and I don't have to click on the convoy to know what it is. Strange quirk though, if the TF only has one ship, the label you write will not show up on the rollover.



PaxMondo -> RE: Playing time? (5/5/2020 8:02:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Because I cannot remember stuff the way I used to, I label my convoys with their mission: e.g. 'Coastal AA 2 Noumea'. Then when I roll the cursor over it at sea, that label will show up and I don't have to click on the convoy to know what it is. Strange quirk though, if the TF only has one ship, the label you write will not show up on the rollover.

Yeah, I do the same. Huge help. I wish LCU's could have a label as well … I talked it over with MichaelM, there just wasn't space in the detail page to add it in. [:(]



LeeChard -> RE: Playing time? (5/5/2020 9:57:41 AM)

You can slim down the workload some by concentrating your first orders on the front line units and combat TFs.
In real life(IRL)not every unit, base and ship at sea recieved orders throughout the pacific on day one anyway.
Skedaddle your shipping in the Philippines, Hong Kong and Singapore etc. I create some TFs of submarines and send them to Pearl, Soerbaja or Brisbane and operate from there after I've assigned a bunch from Manila(some of the smaller subs use smaller old torpedoes that actually work!)
This might be a more realistic response to the first day, I think, and give the AI a better chance of giving you a good game in my humble opinion [;)]



jmlima -> RE: Playing time? (5/5/2020 10:13:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike McCreery

... Some need to check every unit every turn and some people set things up and forget them.

....


I'm confused by this, unless I'm misunderstanding. Is there any way to automate anything in the game? I thought every single nitty-gritty bitty thing needed to be done by the player. Or do you mean something different when you say 'set things up'?



oaltinyay -> RE: Playing time? (5/5/2020 10:22:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marco70

I need help deciding if this game is for me. From what I understand, it's more of a passion than a game.
But how many hours do you need to invest in the WITP campaign? I've seen some videos, the first turn took 9 hours to do all the settings for the allies. In this one he was clicking every single unit / base and explains a lot, but many others were in the 3-4 hour range. Is this effort reduced in the following turns?
If a turn is a day, then the campaign lasted a decade of my time.

What do you think?

run away if you can - this is a "time vampire of a game". You will be mumbling about lost ships and unsupplied island bases, strikes failing to locate target and more... You will spend a small fortune on Pac War books in amazon.

Once you enter the domain, there is no exit.



RangerJoe -> RE: Playing time? (5/5/2020 11:01:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike McCreery

... Some need to check every unit every turn and some people set things up and forget them.

....


I'm confused by this, unless I'm misunderstanding. Is there any way to automate anything in the game? I thought every single nitty-gritty bitty thing needed to be done by the player. Or do you mean something different when you say 'set things up'?


There are some convoys for supplies and resources that once they are set up, you can set to a "CS" convoy. The convoy will continue to operate hauling things back and forth. When you are looking at the convoy screen at the port where it starts, after you have set the destination, click on "Human control" go past "computer control" and you will get the "CS convoy" which is the one that you want You can set it up with a return cargo or not. Very useful for the Japanese between Fusan and Japan, as well as Hokkaido and Honshu, among other places.

Once you set up your Operational Training Units to further train your pilots, you don't need to check them every day. Once yous see how fast they train, you might only need to check them every month to either switch to a new skill or bring promote some to the Reserves while brining in new pilots.



jmlima -> RE: Playing time? (5/5/2020 11:52:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike McCreery

... Some need to check every unit every turn and some people set things up and forget them.

....


I'm confused by this, unless I'm misunderstanding. Is there any way to automate anything in the game? I thought every single nitty-gritty bitty thing needed to be done by the player. Or do you mean something different when you say 'set things up'?


There are some convoys for supplies and resources that once they are set up, you can set to a "CS" convoy. The convoy will continue to operate hauling things back and forth. When you are looking at the convoy screen at the port where it starts, after you have set the destination, click on "Human control" go past "computer control" and you will get the "CS convoy" which is the one that you want You can set it up with a return cargo or not. Very useful for the Japanese between Fusan and Japan, as well as Hokkaido and Honshu, among other places.

Once you set up your Operational Training Units to further train your pilots, you don't need to check them every day. Once yous see how fast they train, you might only need to check them every month to either switch to a new skill or bring promote some to the Reserves while brining in new pilots.


Ah, ok, that is more in line with I thought, which was that it's not like you can say to the engine, 'you fight the war in China, I'll focus on to Solomons campaign'.



BBfanboy -> RE: Playing time? (5/5/2020 7:15:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike McCreery

... Some need to check every unit every turn and some people set things up and forget them.

....


I'm confused by this, unless I'm misunderstanding. Is there any way to automate anything in the game? I thought every single nitty-gritty bitty thing needed to be done by the player. Or do you mean something different when you say 'set things up'?


There are some convoys for supplies and resources that once they are set up, you can set to a "CS" convoy. The convoy will continue to operate hauling things back and forth. When you are looking at the convoy screen at the port where it starts, after you have set the destination, click on "Human control" go past "computer control" and you will get the "CS convoy" which is the one that you want You can set it up with a return cargo or not. Very useful for the Japanese between Fusan and Japan, as well as Hokkaido and Honshu, among other places.

Once you set up your Operational Training Units to further train your pilots, you don't need to check them every day. Once yous see how fast they train, you might only need to check them every month to either switch to a new skill or bring promote some to the Reserves while brining in new pilots.


Ah, ok, that is more in line with I thought, which was that it's not like you can say to the engine, 'you fight the war in China, I'll focus on to Solomons campaign'.

As I understand it, the AI doesn't have a lot more ground to take in China (in the scripts written for it) so if the Chinese can break contact and put a vacant hex or two between them and the enemy, the AI tends not to pursue. At least that is the way it was many years ago when I did not want to play the war in China.

OTOH, you can't get a real flavour of the interconnected pieces of this puzzle of a game unless you work China as best you can. It wasn't a big part of the war for the Western Allies but it was for the Japanese and Chinese. You can learn a lot about the ground war game as you try and build defensive positions and get supply to troops in China. You need to make hard choices between building bases/forts and taking reinforcements or not. You need to decide if any of the Chinese units are worthy of the PP required to fix them up with a good leader (look at AV and experience levels). Most of things you learn from making these decisions can be used elsewhere in the game. And the consequences of making a mistake in China are usually less serious than making the same mistake in a critical battle.



RangerJoe -> RE: Playing time? (5/5/2020 10:55:23 PM)

Best best way to reinforce the Chinese units is to get them supply and take support squads. Those two things will help get the disabled squads whole. Later is the time to take squad replacements, when there is enough supply. Or quit taking replacements in China while filling out any units in India where you might end up needing them and where there should be enough supply available.



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