Greece has no army? (Full Version)

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Searry -> Greece has no army? (5/12/2020 3:52:51 PM)

So the game gave me the ability to spend loads of points on Greece to make it another painful thorn in the CP's side but looks like they have no army at all... Only something pathetic in Athens. Why? I know there was the constant bickering with Venizelos and the King, but didn't Entente pressure ensure that the Venizelists won that argument for at least a moment.



The Land -> RE: Greece has no army? (5/12/2020 4:18:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Searry

So the game gave me the ability to spend loads of points on Greece to make it another painful thorn in the CP's side but looks like they have no army at all... Only something pathetic in Athens. Why? I know there was the constant bickering with Venizelos and the King, but didn't Entente pressure ensure that the Venizelists won that argument for at least a moment.



There's an event that creates a Venezielist Corps near Salonika - that's all you get unless the CP actually invade.

Greece in WW1 was dire, the British Navy ended up blockading Royalist Southern Greece and starving the population - while they were technically allied...



Searry -> RE: Greece has no army? (5/12/2020 4:28:14 PM)

Damn. It feels like you have to know all the events beforehand you commit to something.



The Land -> RE: Greece has no army? (5/12/2020 4:33:42 PM)

I'm not even sure you get the Corps if you diplo Greece in rather than waiting for an event to fire.

And - yes sometimes the game feels that way - the events system adds a lot of flavour and fun but sometimes you do have to know what event is going to go where...



GungaDin16 -> RE: Greece has no army? (5/12/2020 6:05:47 PM)

Yea I love the historic events but unless you do a play through first, they do throw unexpected pain or glory your way. I don't mind it though. It's not like there were not surprises for leaders during the war. Another 'Greek' problem is that once they join the Entente there seems to be no limit to how many Greek armies England can pay to recruit.



mdsmall -> RE: Greece has no army? (5/12/2020 6:58:47 PM)

In the game I just finished playing as the Entente (against the AI), Greece under the Venizelos joining the Entente was one of the early Decision Events that enabled me to win. First, I did not have to spend any money on very slow and chancy diplomacy to swing this result. Second, the Venizelos corps in Salonica was a very welcome addition to the Serb forces fighting to defend their front. Third, the fact that Greece is a British ally enabled me to buy a Greek Artillery unit using plentiful British MPPs that benefitted from British tech, which then gave me the firepower to enable the Serbs to recapture Belgrade. Finally, I was able to make great use of all the Greek ports as a jump-off point to transport British corps between the Balkans and Egypt. In fact, I was about to sending General Allenby by train using operational movemen, from Boulogne to Kalamata when the Austro-Hungarians collapsed. So, don't complain too much that they don't bring much to the party!



eightroomofelixir -> RE: Greece has no army? (5/13/2020 1:11:41 AM)

I think Greece does has a build limit of 6 infantry corps, 1 cavalry corps, and 5 detachments, according to the Campaign Editor.

Edit: Also, if Greece is alarmed by Central Powers units approaching it, there will be a total of 5 corps mobilized in Greece, besides the Venizelist corps. The limit is still 6.



Searry -> RE: Greece has no army? (5/13/2020 7:32:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mdsmall

In the game I just finished playing as the Entente (against the AI), Greece under the Venizelos joining the Entente was one of the early Decision Events that enabled me to win. First, I did not have to spend any money on very slow and chancy diplomacy to swing this result. Second, the Venizelos corps in Salonica was a very welcome addition to the Serb forces fighting to defend their front. Third, the fact that Greece is a British ally enabled me to buy a Greek Artillery unit using plentiful British MPPs that benefitted from British tech, which then gave me the firepower to enable the Serbs to recapture Belgrade. Finally, I was able to make great use of all the Greek ports as a jump-off point to transport British corps between the Balkans and Egypt. In fact, I was about to sending General Allenby by train using operational movemen, from Boulogne to Kalamata when the Austro-Hungarians collapsed. So, don't complain too much that they don't bring much to the party!


How did you defend Serbia for so long? What difficulty?



Searry -> RE: Greece has no army? (5/13/2020 7:56:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eightroomofelixir

I think Greece does has a build limit of 6 infantry corps, 1 cavalry corps, and 5 detachments, according to the Campaign Editor.

Edit: Also, if Greece is alarmed by Central Powers units approaching it, there will be a total of 5 corps mobilized in Greece, besides the Venizelist corps. The limit is still 6.


So they mobilize later? Good, I thought I had to restart the campaign.



BillRunacre -> RE: Greece has no army? (5/13/2020 1:46:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GungaDin16

Yea I love the historic events but unless you do a play through first, they do throw unexpected pain or glory your way. I don't mind it though. It's not like there were not surprises for leaders during the war. Another 'Greek' problem is that once they join the Entente there seems to be no limit to how many Greek armies England can pay to recruit.


There is a short section on each country in the Strategy Guide, and this can be accessed from one of the buttons at the top right of the screen while playing. Reading the Decision Events relevant to Greece that are also in the guide will help too.



mdsmall -> RE: Greece has no army? (5/13/2020 1:59:27 PM)

Re Searry's question, I found it pretty easy to defend Serbia against the Austro-Hungarian forces played by the AI. I lost Belgrade on the first turn but then was able to hold a line along the Sava and Drina rivers against their attacks. Although the Austro-Hungarians used one artillery against the Serbs, the Serbs were able to increase their entrenchment tech fast enough to hold off enemy attacks.

The key to pushing back the AH forces was not losing the port in Montenegro. the AI sent only one AH corps to attack Cetinje which I was able to defend. After stabilizing this line, I realized that I could use transports and amphibious movement across the Adriatic to reinforce the Serbian front. Once Italy entered the war, I started sending French corps via transports from Brindisi to the port in Albania to strengthen the Serb forces. Then I landed one French corps using amphibious movement behind the AH corps attacking Cetinje. I won that combat, freed Antivari from enemy zones of control and then over the subsequent turns brought in more French corps and a general which were slowly able to move up the Adriatic coast. Once I was able to bring in artillery to this front, in part using the Greek artillery unit, I was able to turn and break the AH line with the combined Serb and French forces and retook Belgrade. Vigorous use of diplomatic chits helped keep the Bulgarians from declaring war and attacking Serbia in the rear. Once Romania entered the war on the Entente side, it was all over for Austria-Hungary on that front.



eightroomofelixir -> RE: Greece has no army? (5/13/2020 5:44:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Searry
So they mobilize later? Good, I thought I had to restart the campaign.


Only if CP units are approaching them though - if your Serbia defends really well, you will need to purchase Greek units yourself other than the Venizelist one.



FOARP -> RE: Greece has no army? (5/14/2020 9:53:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eightroomofelixir

I think Greece does has a build limit of 6 infantry corps, 1 cavalry corps, and 5 detachments, according to the Campaign Editor.

Edit: Also, if Greece is alarmed by Central Powers units approaching it, there will be a total of 5 corps mobilized in Greece, besides the Venizelist corps. The limit is still 6.


Yeah, not sure what this relatively high build-limit is based on. Did Greece historically have an army that large? I know they invaded Asia Minor with 200,000 troops in 1919-22* so this is probably the upper limit to Greece's historical strength. These organised in 12 infantry divisions, a cavalry brigade, and 9 independent regiments (perhaps the equivalent of three more infantry divisions). Crucially this army was generally considered too large for Greece to support, and in the Balkan Wars fewer troops were mobilised (~125,000-150,000). Whilst a figure of 250,000 troops mobilised is given for Greece for WW1, checking through this does not appear to have equated to many actually units deployed to the actual front which never exceeded the planned three corps - the numbers appear comparable to the Balkan wars.

7 corps plus 5 detachments (and a marine division and artillery unit, as well as fighters and bombers and naval units IIRC) is about 9 corps, which is more than 200,000 men even with small-sized corps. Indeed, it's more like 300,000 men.

A more realistic strength-limit would probably be more like three infantry corps, a cavalry division, four detachments, and an artillery unit, plus a fighter and a destroyer and an armoured cruiser.

*I really would like to read a decently-written history of that war, only thing I've ever read is Patrick Kinross's biography of Kemal Ataturk which was a bit light on detail about the fighting particularly as regards the battles he did not command in (e.g., Inonu). The 1919-22 Greco-Turkish war might also be good subject-matter for a stand-alone scenario.



Searry -> RE: Greece has no army? (5/14/2020 11:48:24 AM)

Austro-Hungarian units surrounded Salonika which is defended by 2 British units but the Greek units do not mobilize. I guess I will read the strategy guide but keep the veteran difficulty which makes things nice and difficult.



mdsmall -> RE: Greece has no army? (5/20/2020 7:02:21 PM)

I am playing again as the CP this time and made the mistake (I think) of declaring war on Greece after they had allowed the British and French to use Salonika, but just before they had fully mobilized (they were at 99%). This gave a small jump in terms of organizing my forces to counter the British and French corps that had secretly deployed to Salonika. But by declaring war on Greece, it has the unwelcome effect of mobilizing at least two more Corps in the rest of the country. If I had waited for them to join under Venizelos, I expect Greece would have had only the one corps on the board (unless the Entente paid to raise more). It's a continually interesting scenario!



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