How fast should I beat France? (Full Version)

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Erse -> How fast should I beat France? (5/17/2020 2:36:45 PM)

I recognize that the early game is extremely important for the Axis, and they get more breathing room if they can beat Poland, France, Yugoslavia and Greece as fast as possible.

How quickly do you usually beat france? by what month should they have definitely surrendered? And most importantly, do you have any tips for how to defeat the french as quickly as possible?

Thx!



Treefrog -> RE: How fast should I beat France? (5/17/2020 2:47:28 PM)

Two options on timing and scope of attacking France:
1. Start approach attacks on Benelux as soon as possible, starting with Luxembourg in October. Spend all MPPs on operating units west, existing upgrades and reinforcement of attacking troops. Occupy Netherlands and Belgium with the first troops that operate west from Poland, hopefully November or December. Plunge into France with whatever you have available. To paraphrase N.B.Forrest, get there the firstest with the mostest. Don't let the French have time to switch defenders around, entrench again and reinforce. Consider upgrading movement speed on any troops not attacking so that are better able to exploit any opportunities you develop.

2. Wait until April or May having first purchased more tanks, medium and tactical bombers. Your troops will be better, but the French position will be much improved.



ElvisJJonesRambo -> RE: How fast should I beat France? (5/17/2020 2:56:37 PM)

Fastest way, get clear weather. There's no magic pill to get France quick, maybe a turn or two earlier. Just specific do not(s).

You wanna spend the Operands and not upgrade, nothing faster than that.
Attack Belgium on turn #2, by Operand 1-Panzer on turn #1 + Army + Tactical. You don't need the Medium Bomber, because Supply 0 and no entrench for Brussels on surprise attacks. Save Medium for turn #2 Poland.

Eventually weather or needing some Tech upgrades or reinforcements will slow lead units.

May thru July, whatever, depends on your plan.



Bo Rearguard -> RE: How fast should I beat France? (5/17/2020 2:58:24 PM)

I haven't been playing long, but the earliest I have ever conquered France is in July 1940. It helps if you start by by just declaring war on the Netherlands alone and overrunning it first. Belgium will probably declare war immediately after. You can start such an invasion in the late winter of 1940, but you won't always have the best weather for your bomber arm which can slow things down a bit when it comes to overrunning Belgium and France. Some players rail their forces west after the fall of Poland to get as early a start as possible, but I prefer to save the MPPs for other things. Forced marches instead.

To defeat the French it helps to concentrate on beating up the corps in their front lines with armor. Sooner or later you'll get an open flank to work with and things start to fall apart pretty quickly. I've noticed that the AI British will sometimes take to their heels and go Dunkirking for the ports when things start to go south, which makes things easier. Sometimes the Italians cam assist a little, but they might be better off looking after Libya.

Annoyingly, France doesn't always fall when you take Paris, so you have to take that chance into consideration too.



JJU57 -> RE: How fast should I beat France? (6/1/2020 7:21:52 PM)

There is some bad advice here. You do NOT want to only DOW Netherlands or Belgium. The reason is simple. When you DOW them both they place their units with 0 supply which means they die easily. If you don't take out both countries in the same turn then the units or country not at war gets units on the next allied turn and now they have supply, higher morale entrenchment etc.

As for how soon it comes down to clear weather. Take the Low Countries on the 1st clear weather turn you can with enough troops to capture both capitals. Remember that if you don't kill off units you get a portion of their MPP in plunder. So it's not always a good idea to kill all enemy units.

I'm against using operate as you don't get the MPP's back that you wasted. The earliest you can get enough troops to the west is your turn 3. Turn one get close to Warsaw, turn 2 operate tank, HQ, TAC and 3-4 INF to west. Turn 3 DOW Low Countries. But you have maybe a 50/50 chance for clear weather and it gets worse from there till almost Spring. For me it's a big gamble on MPP where if bad weather hits you still can't do much till spring.

So instead on turn 1 I do as normal against Poland. On turn 2 I finish off Poland but started to force march some corps and armies to the west along with moving the HQ's. Turn 2-4 I via normal movement and force marching I get more than enough units in the west so that IF I get clear weather I can take out the Low Countries. That means I can be as little as ONE turn behind without spending MPP on operating units and sometimes based on weather the attacks go off the same turn.

In the BEST case scenario if you operate you get the Low Countries on Axis turn 3 and not operating you have to wait till April.

As for France just punch a hole in the line, reduce units next to it to under 5 for ZOC reduction and move in multiple units. AI always falls apart, moral hits hurt France and you can take Paris soon afterwords. Most of the time it takes 3 Axis turns to take Paris after you take out the Low Countries so 4 turns in total.



ElvisJJonesRambo -> RE: How fast should I beat France? (6/1/2020 8:49:22 PM)

@JJU57 --- Actually, you do NOT want to DOW on Netherlands, 1st, because Belgium gonna Waffle, and join Allies. Try operanding both Panzers, Fly Tactical Bomber, and you can have Belgium on turn #2 most likely.



JJU57 -> RE: How fast should I beat France? (6/4/2020 12:43:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

@JJU57 --- Actually, you do NOT want to DOW on Netherlands, 1st, because Belgium gonna Waffle, and join Allies. Try operanding both Panzers, Fly Tactical Bomber, and you can have Belgium on turn #2 most likely.


Perhaps I wasn't completely clear. I was saying you do not DOW either Netherlands or Belgium without doing a DOW and conquest on both countries in the same turn. Fighting either one alone gives the other country time to get supply. All Low Countries need to fall during the same turn.

I wrote: "You do NOT want to only DOW Netherlands or Belgium." So I thought that was clear to not DOW just one country.

And as I argued operating is a waste of MPP because you face the weather gods. And to take Belgium on your second turn means you don't use the panzers or TAC against Poland so Poland will survive past your second turn. Now the AI can and does make mistakes but using INF alone against Poland it is hard to see how it falls in two turns.



ElvisJJonesRambo -> RE: How fast should I beat France? (6/4/2020 5:08:06 AM)

True, if you operand the Panzers weather can happen. Then again, if it does, you can upgrade instead. You are very correct, if you screw up, trying to get cute, it can be a major setback against simple conquests.




Elessar2 -> RE: How fast should I beat France? (6/4/2020 2:33:45 PM)


quote:

2. Wait until April or May having first purchased more tanks, medium and tactical bombers. Your troops will be better, but the French position will be much improved.


But that simply means more experience available for your guys.

I tried the quick attack option last month. Constant rain & snow from October thru March meant the French capitulated by early June. Doing it more slowly, getting 2 more tanks + a tac, upgrading it all, attacking on first clear spring turn usually means they surrender by late June or July. Doesn't seem worth it, even if you were planning on going back east against Russia.



ElvisJJonesRambo -> RE: How fast should I beat France? (6/5/2020 12:34:55 AM)

Very true, again. Is that x2 turns worth it? That's for the player to decide. Many German player I've faced, buy Rocket Artillery as their first piece, wanna say they can be ready December/January. It's produced fast than Heavy Artillery. The advantage of Heavy, believe it is used on defensive fire.



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