Nonsensical AI (Full Version)

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FAA -> Nonsensical AI (5/19/2020 9:40:20 PM)

I tried playing vs AI using DaBigBabes Lite, and the AI is atrocious, as atrocious as vanilla - it will, for example, keep sending amphibious groups to land in Port Moresby, which I heavily fortified, and get slaughtered each time. Additionally, they will send bombardment groups there even when I have carriers present.

Is there any way to improve the AI? Better scenarios or something?



geofflambert -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/19/2020 10:58:57 PM)

Ask for someone whose initials are A.I. in the opponents wanted forum. I'm sure someone would be up for a short scenario.



PaxMondo -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/19/2020 11:06:08 PM)

What difficult and scenario are you playing?



Andy Mac -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/20/2020 12:11:41 AM)

FAA DaBabesLight is a great scenario and the guys put a lot of effort into it and it is definitely playable v the AI but it is basically scenario 1 ie historical and I would never recommend playing the AI on any version of scen 1 - to be effective in that scenario the AI has to do everything right and a scripted AI simply cannot do that v a player

Andy



Yaab -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/20/2020 4:42:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FAA

I tried playing vs AI using DaBigBabes Lite, and the AI is atrocious, as atrocious as vanilla - it will, for example, keep sending amphibious groups to land in Port Moresby, which I heavily fortified, and get slaughtered each time. Additionally, they will send bombardment groups there even when I have carriers present.

Is there any way to improve the AI? Better scenarios or something?


Here Kull speaks how to update the AI

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4257473



FAA -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/20/2020 8:59:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

FAA DaBabesLight is a great scenario and the guys put a lot of effort into it and it is definitely playable v the AI but it is basically scenario 1 ie historical and I would never recommend playing the AI on any version of scen 1 - to be effective in that scenario the AI has to do everything right and a scripted AI simply cannot do that v a player

Andy


Which scenario should I choose then to make sure that AI doesn’t behave like a complete idiot?



Yaab -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/20/2020 11:19:57 AM)

FAA, the AI is scripted, so you will break the AI in any scenario.

Ironman scenarios give AI more units than historical to make the AI last longer.
You can play on Hard on Very Hard difficulty to give AI various bonuses.

If you want to continue play BabesLite , go to the thread I linked and read posts 100 and 101.
They show how you can update the old AI with new scripts.

Consider that some scenarios are more historical (stock, Babes, RHS), some are what-if scenarios (RA Reluctant Admiral), and some are AI-boosting (Ironman scenarios). I play historical ones, and since AI is scripted, I house-rule myself to give AI more handicap.



Lowpe -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/20/2020 2:22:34 PM)

I think you are looking at the AI in the wrong way.

They are more your partner than your opponent. It is very easy to break the AI and take ridiculous advantage of it.

I am currently playing an Ironman Tier 3 game, and I have restricted all CV task forces to 2 carriers, not resized air groups, not transferred restricted groups to carriers, pursuing diversified r&d, restricted base and fort building, following pp for commands, leaving most troops at start in Manchuko, etc, etc.

I don't plan on setting up a fortress defense anywhere along my perimeter.

Why don't you let the AI into Port Moresby for a while?



stretch -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/20/2020 2:29:51 PM)

Holding Canton Island early results in the same thing, the AI will send force after force to try and get it. What I did was allow the landings without destroying the APs, the landings were each defeated. After a few tries it stops. Just don't decimate the AI in those situations and you'll have an enjoyable game. I could also have just let the AI have Canton and take it later; its not going to defeat me to lose it for a few months.



Shellshock -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/20/2020 2:43:49 PM)

ORIGINAL: FAA
quote:

FAA

Which scenario should I choose then to make sure that AI doesn’t behave like a complete idiot?


Whether playing as the Japanese or the Allies, the AI is always going to play as an idiot the further you get from the established beginning strategies of the campaign game. It doesn't matter how many times you ambush it in night battles or combat air patrol traps it's never going suddenly "learn" its lesson and change its ways. It only changes strategy when it no longer has the material to carry on with its current one. Usually after you've shot down hundreds of poorly escorted bombers and sunken dozens of sitting duck transports offloading their cargoes.

The only way to mitigate it, is to either handicap yourself or give it more toys to play with.

Frankly, given the complexities of this game it's amazing the AI does as well as it does. It can pull off the occasional surprise when you get careless and is available to play 24 hours a day unlike a human opponent. It does better in the short scenarios. I guess there are trade-offs.



GetAssista -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/20/2020 3:48:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
I think you are looking at the AI in the wrong way.

They are more your partner than your opponent.

Hear, hear!
Playing against AI in this game is not about winning the scenarios. It is more about going through a series of set up battles where your goal is to play your part correctly in a particular battle. To organize your assets, to execute a plan, to deal with unexpected stuff along the way. And then move on to another battle

E.g. you already organized the defense of Port Moresby and AI was not able to take int in the initial push? That's it, this battle is resolved, you did things right, it's time to move on and not stall the AI milking it for assets in futile attempts to get PM (because it's in his scripts to try take PM with whatever assets available nearby). Either go on the offensive and play through the amphibious invasion battle on the theater. Or let AI take PM and move on to another defensive battle deeper into your territory. That is, help AI to move on and let him present you with another set piece battle.



Lovejoy -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/20/2020 4:00:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FAA


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

FAA DaBabesLight is a great scenario and the guys put a lot of effort into it and it is definitely playable v the AI but it is basically scenario 1 ie historical and I would never recommend playing the AI on any version of scen 1 - to be effective in that scenario the AI has to do everything right and a scripted AI simply cannot do that v a player

Andy


Which scenario should I choose then to make sure that AI doesn’t behave like a complete idiot?


Andy Mac has done a lot of Ironman scenarios that give players a good game. Lowpe is currently doing an AAR against the Allied AI, and a number of Allied players have had good games against his Japan AI ironmans.



FAA -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/21/2020 11:17:31 AM)

Surprisingly, AI got much worse after updating to the newest version. I have followed the instructions and moved new AI files and left just scenarios 1-6, which are supposed to be the most historical ones, and in December Japanese sent a single light carrier to within one hex of Pearl Harbor, quickly destroyed by my dive bombers stationed there, and on Jan 1st they tried the same thing with 2 carriers, this time desrroyed without much difficulty by my carriers fixe hexes from Pearl.

It’s beyond dumb now.

Edit: I checked it in head-to-head view. AI sent two carriers and two destroyers with Pearll Harbour base as their destination. Are they trying to enter a U.S. port or something? I’ve never seen AI do something as stupid as that.



Yaab -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/21/2020 11:29:20 AM)


My aei001.dat file for scen001 is from 25 September 2019. What is your date for aei files?



FAA -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/21/2020 11:47:29 AM)

Ir’s the stock Dec 8 scenario, so as per Kull’s topic it’s 24/06/2012. All my files are from 2012, where can I find newer ones?



Yaab -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/21/2020 12:02:10 PM)

Here, post number 2

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4692890

However, the updates have no AI variants, so you only get one aei002.dat file.

Though, I cannot remember if you have to restart the campaign for the AI changes to take effect.



FAA -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/21/2020 12:06:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Here, post number

However, the updates have no AI variants, so you only get one aei002.dat file.

Though, I cannot remember if you have to restart the campaign for the AI changes to take effect.


Thanks a lot!What can I expect from this AI?

Also, it’s in the protected slot, I edited it to give rhe enemy some stronger forts for better late game, saved it and renamed the scn file to replace the old one - can I break anything this way?



Yaab -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/21/2020 12:18:03 PM)

Less suicidal scripts - AI TFs not reacting into Bataan CD guns, Singapore CD guns, fewer small carrier raids.

But don't expect a dynamic AI, it is stiil the scripts.

If this AI doesn't work for you, than maybe PBEM against human opponent will suit you more.

BTW, I would restart the campaign to be sure you use the new scripts.




btd64 -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/21/2020 12:26:19 PM)

Yaab, you do have to restart to use the new scripts. And I also would suggest a PBEM against a human. So much fun[;)]....GP



FAA -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/21/2020 12:46:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

Yaab, you do have to restart to use the new scripts. And I also would suggest a PBEM against a human. So much fun[;)]....GP


I’m experiencing a bug - all planes have their altitudes set to 0000. How can I fix that?



Yaab -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/21/2020 12:57:16 PM)

I dont recognise this bug.



btd64 -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/21/2020 1:03:42 PM)

Use the arrowheads to change the altitude. Although they shouldn't start at 0000. When you resaved the scenario, what slot number did you use....GP



Yaab -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/21/2020 1:12:54 PM)

FAA, what version is your game? Did you install the latest official patch and the beta patch?



Andy Mac -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/21/2020 1:15:45 PM)

The very latest AI files are the ones in the post on the scen forum titled Scen 1 and 2 updated.

I haven't looked at Dec 8th Scen in decades so not sure how good and up to date those scens will be but if you are playing a babes variant scen I am sure its ok.

I would delete all the aei00x.dat and aei00x-0x.dat files and replace them with the one in the zip on Scen 1 /2 updated version

Fair warning no matter which scenario you pick I don't think Scen 1 or even Scen 2 or any variant based off of them will give anything other than a total novice player a good game without the player giving the AI a lot of assistance.




RangerJoe -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/21/2020 1:18:00 PM)

Well, if they are on the ground . . . [8|]



Andy Mac -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/21/2020 1:21:28 PM)

If you want to amend the scenario I would do the following

Load the scnenario you want to play in the editor
Save it as a new number >25
Exit the editor
Delete all the AI files against the new scen number
Replace with the one from Scen 1 or 2 in the forum post above
Reopen the editor opening the new scen you have created
Make the edits you want
Save

Open Game and start scenaro



btd64 -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/21/2020 1:25:37 PM)

Thanks for stepping in Andy....GP



Andy Mac -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/21/2020 1:31:31 PM)

I do worry that player playing any variant of scen 1 whether babes stock or extended map will play it and in 6 months realise the AI is uncompetitive and have wasted a lot of time

I haven't and wont touch Dec 8th Scens for an update (too much time)
And quiet China is just a waste of time if you want quiet China play a normal scen and ignore China not much will happen for either side !!!

Babes is the more difficult one if that's the scen that everyone wants to play ie is that the new default if that's the case and it basically scen 1 I don't see the AI ever being even marginally competitive unless I ironman them and I don't have much time to do that



morphin -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/21/2020 2:40:35 PM)

Any News about Updated Scenario with Allied A.I.?[:D]



Andy Mac -> RE: Nonsensical AI (5/21/2020 3:34:07 PM)

Its done I am testing it now and basically watching Lowpe's AAR to see if I can pick anything else up



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