Ottoman strategy

Ottoman strategy (Full Version)

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hottegetthoff -> Ottoman strategy (5/21/2020 8:48:09 AM)
This my small guide that u want to share and also i want to see how other people play with the most difficult major for CP and probably everyone. When it comes to decisions and events, i use every opportunity to help them. They're supposed to distract enough forces from the entente. I don't know when exactly they enter the war if UK gives them the sultan osman I, since it didn't happen, but im not sure how viable is this option for entente. When it comes to convoy through serbia, i usually don't concentrate on serbia, i just try to take Belgrad and Valjevo, then wait until bulgaria helps since A-H is distracted. This is disadvantageous for them, as i can't support them as early as i could. Most important rule is to build detachments to free up corps from places like gallipoli, and to contain partizans, places like Smyrna and Zonguldak aren't too endangered by invasion (Smyrna should only be emptied if your fleet is ready to cover it). Research trench warfare as soon ad you can, before even entering the war. Infantry weapons, warfare are useful as well. Also, use Sack/replace with, turks have only one 6 general available, but every bit helps. Caucasus: Your biggest problem is lack of HQs on this front. 2nd is the lack of rail, only sea. When Liman von Sanders rrives in Constantinople, transport him to trabzond, then Erzurum, and this is your main point of defence. Have corps in front of it, the HQ should be adjacent to both of them for best effect. On the coastal part, you can abandon Rize, but Trabzon is too important to lose. You can ship units from zonguldak to trabzon in one turn. Near the Persian border, there lies the most dangerous road of attack. You don't have many units at the beginning, the Cavalry won't hold for long enough, and you need Corps here. After this breaks however, with some luck you can encircle some Russian units if they advance carelessly. Overall, you need 2 corps near erzurum, 1 in trabzond, and further 2 on the line, not counting Cav, detachments and spares. Russia will have artullery and bombers which will make it harder, but uf you stay on the defensive, you can drain them even after losing some cities. Try to not lose Trabzon and erzurum to not give them a wude front into anatolia. Egypt/Palestine In the opening turns operate your units quickly and put pressure on egypt. Attack is hard, so if you have any doubts, call it off, and begin retreat to Gaza line. If you suffer losses here, it'll collapse as british can put many resources in here. Beware of landings, Alexandretta, Hajfa, Tripoli, Beirut all can be attacked. If he used Cyprus detachment, you can risk landing on Cyprus, it can prove useful for the fleet. You'll need aircraft and artillery the most on this front. Mesopotamia: this front opens up usually late, try to prevent losing small cities for mpp on the beginning, but once more units pour in, you need to buy and walk the HQ from Gaziantep, and more corps. Cav corps from caucasus can reach here quickly, and can be of help. Even if you lose baghdad, if you form up in mosul you can prevent the british ftom further harm. Greece: you shouldn't spend many ottoman forces in here, its ports are useful. Navy: at first, concentrate on black sea to protect shipping to trabzon. Russians will build a DN here, outmatching you, but at the beginning only a BB and a sub can be dealt with. Also, seaplane tenders can appear in black sea. You need to counter this, by moving 1/2 a-h/german subs from adriatic to constantinople, to lure out the dreadnought and kill it. Also bulgarian port can help you in even an amphibious attack on russian coast, if youre brave enough. An attack from trabzon can be considered, but its not usually worth it. Later, you need to try to entente forces in Med. If A-H fared well, you may be the nail in the coffin. You have ports in palestine, use them very carefully. When it comes to amphibious invasions, as i mentioned, Cyprus, Rhodes, and then if you're feeeling lucky Crete. Lemnos can also be taken if emptied. All those islands have ports, this erodes Entente control of the sea very much. If austro hungarians can help, they definitely should provide a detachment or corp to help in those endeavours. When it comes to expanding your navy, an airship used for ground and naval spotting can be useful, but you should concentrate on building either subs, if somehow you cant get through the med, but better build CLs and DDs. Of course, this won't be often, and you need to be sure to commit t MPPs here. Hope i presented any new ideas, if nit maybe someone new will find it useful.

stockwellpete -> RE: Ottoman strategy (11/25/2020 8:38:34 AM)
A belated thanks for this analysis. So far I have played very defensively with the Turks in my games against the AI. And basically they get ground down very steadily when I play this way, so I am starting to think how I might be a bit more expansive with them. One thing with the Research that might help a lot is Logistics, because the leader values of the Ottoman generals is quite low. So in my current game I am investing some chits in Logistics right from the beginning. I am still struggling to find much of a role for the Ottoman navy, although I have had some success at baiting and sinking a Russian Dreadnought that comes towards the Straits. The other thing I am trying now is to delay starting most of my research for 5-6 turns so that I can buy a couple of extra Corps infantry units (Mountain type) in 1914. My initial reaction was to think that the Turks were behind technologically and so therefore every MPP should be put into Research, but in this current game the two extra infantry units I have is giving me a flank on the Russian advance towards Erzurum and inhibiting their progress somewhat. It is also allowing me to gradually withdraw the Ottoman cavalry units from that front so they can deal with Mr Lawrence. The other dilemma I have currently is whether it is worth investing in artillery for the Turks. It costs around 600 MPP's just to get one artillery unit working reasonably efficiently - and both the British (in Palestine) and the Russians use their own artillery very effectively against the Turks. But the Turks are not going to be able to recoup many of those 600 MPP's by inflicting damage on their enemies, so maybe it is better spent elsewhere. Another level of Morale and Command and Control perhaps? Or some Fighter Planes for air cover. I am not sure about this yet. I think this is where the game is very strong though. Each component nation of your alliance has its own particular priorities and problems and you have to try and mesh them into a a coherent overall strategy to defeat the enemy.

hottegetthoff -> RE: Ottoman strategy (11/28/2020 12:43:03 PM)
AS for the starting strategy Caucasus needs 2 HQs, which is a huge problem and i usually ship Liman von Sanders here. This weakens Gallipoli region, but i found that even with 1 turn naval bombardment its pretty hard to use 1 unit from Murdos to capture 1 of 4 points of interest in the region (Gallipoli, Smyrna, Chanak, Sedd el Bahir), and with the correct naval game can be exploited, and doesnt even guarantee success in the landing itself. Greece and Italy joining change the balance of power, giving Entente a bigger potential force, but still, 1 airship(cheap) will inform you of any planned attacks. Another danger is landing in Syria/Lebanon/Palestine ports, as it directly interrupts reinforcements to I try to cover all partisan nodes in Palestine and Syria(with detachments), and to cover Mecca from the side of railway. Ottoman Navy should only seek engagement with Russia when they dont have the dreadnought at black sea. Later use a borrowed or turkish sub (yes, i build those sometimes) to scout and contrrol reinforcing Caucasus on the Zonguldak-Trabzon route. If russians get cheeky and move to zonguldak try punishing it. Your 1 mine is very valuable, i recommend placing it in black sea. If Austrian navy holds strong, a joint operation to break out of adriatic can be conducted, but you need to have as much subs/airship recon as you can muster. Essentially your role is to tie up as much UK/Russian forces as you can. You need to probe both the caucasus and suez without losing any units, and continue accordingly. Mesopotamia is hard, an HQ is needed here, and defense needs to be earlier than baghdad.

Chernobyl -> RE: Ottoman strategy (11/29/2020 2:09:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stockwellpete The other dilemma I have currently is whether it is worth investing in artillery for the Turks. It costs around 600 MPP's just to get one artillery It's tough but I decided realistically against a human opponent Ottomans need to purchase too many other things before they can spare 300 MPP for an artillery that it isn't worth spending on arty/shell tech early. They need Entrenchment x4, Detachments, Industry Tech, a new HQ, more Detachments, and honestly Diplomacy chits to counter smart Entente diplomacy, and only now might I consider investing in Artillery tech. But I might pick Infantry Weapons first. If things get scary in Egypt I might rail over an Austrian artillery. If the Russians mass artillery in the Caucasus then you will lose units, but at least they aren't using it against the Austrians.

OldCrowBalthazor -> RE: Ottoman strategy (11/29/2020 5:00:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chernobyl quote: ORIGINAL: stockwellpete The other dilemma I have currently is whether it is worth investing in artillery for the Turks. It costs around 600 MPP's just to get one artillery It's tough but I decided realistically against a human opponent Ottomans need to purchase too many other things before they can spare 300 MPP for an artillery that it isn't worth spending on arty/shell tech early. They need Entrenchment x4, Detachments, Industry Tech, a new HQ, more Detachments, and honestly Diplomacy chits to counter smart Entente diplomacy, and only now might I consider investing in Artillery tech. But I might pick Infantry Weapons first. If things get scary in Egypt I might rail over an Austrian artillery. If the Russians mass artillery in the Caucasus then you will lose units, but at least they aren't using it against the Austrians. +1 I do Ottoman arty only after all of the above reguirements are met, and it usually takes the field late in 1916. This is in pbem. Against the AI, you might be able to get away with a much earlier deployment.

Chernobyl -> RE: Ottoman strategy (11/29/2020 2:59:38 PM)
Are there any scripts that give the Ottomans a unit or HQ in case the British do an early 1915 Gallipoli? Cause I don't think the Turks have enough strength to hold off an attack of say 1 marines 3 corps and a HQ

stockwellpete -> RE: Ottoman strategy (11/29/2020 3:14:53 PM)
The Germans sent this chap, "Goltz Pasha", to help the Turks in Iraq and he seems to have been reasonably effective for the 6 months he was there and besieged the British at Kut. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colmar_Freiherr_von_der_Goltz

Chernobyl -> RE: Ottoman strategy (11/29/2020 7:09:43 PM)
Yes, the Ottomans do need some way to hold off a 1915 push towards Baghdad. The British don't really have to wait until 1916/17 to get their HQ there through event; they can ship the Belgian HQ (should be evacuated from Boulogne at the first opportunity) there. This gives the Entente a MASSIVE supply advantage in Iraq until the Ottomans can buy and walk their own HQ over to Baghdad. Furthermore, one of my clever opponents had shipped a British cavalry unit to Basra so it was available from the first turn the Ottomans joined the war. This made it possible for the British to grab Qurna and Nasiriyeh before I could even place units there to stall them. So given this, I think it would be nice to give the Ottomans something more in Iraq, triggered by the British taking Kit or Najaf, or by a date. However giving the Ottomans an extra HQ there might be too powerful. It could lead to overrunning Basra. Perhaps a very low strength HQ? But then it's possible to repair it to strength 8 in Baghdad. I do feel the Ottomans need some extra defense in Iraq, but not sure how to balance it. The main thing preventing either side from advancing is supply, which is fixed by a HQ being there. The British get a HQ at Basra through event in July 1916 but don't have to wait to ship one there. The Ottomans can't easily afford to get a HQ to Baghdad until much later. Perhaps less unbalancing would be to change the maximum strength of Baghdad. Right now it supplies only 5 supply. That means that even in a roaded hex adjacent to Baghdad, Ottoman units only have 4 supply, which isn't even sufficient to let you buy them back at reduced cost should they die. So perhaps increase Baghdad's strength to 6 or 7? This would make it tougher for the British to march on Baghdad in 1915, but not give the Ottomans any extra capacity to attack Basra. It also would give the Ottomans the possibility to fully repair a unit in Baghdad which they currently can't do. Right now it isn't worth attacking any British units in Iraq because any losses you incur are semi-permanent due the low supply. This is somewhat historical. The British pushed towards Baghdad in 1915 but found themselves somewhat outsupplied there.

stockwellpete -> RE: Ottoman strategy (11/29/2020 8:34:20 PM)
I was thinking about this today. Initially, I thought it might be an idea for Germany to have a "Yes" or "No" event to send Goltz and a low strength HQ unit to Baghdad in October 1915, but then I found out that he only lasted 6 months before dying. He was succeeded by Halil Kut, a genocidal maniac by the sounds of it. So maybe that is not such a good idea. What I am trying again in my current game is to buy 2x Mountain Corps for the Turks as quickly as I can so that I can release the 2x Cavalry units from the Caucasus front and send them south to Iraq and/or Palestine. I have also started the Infantry Weapons research quickly so that those cavalry units can deal very effectively with the Arab Revolt and then get on the flank of a British push towards Baghdad. I have moved the Corps at Baghdad to Kut and said "Yes" to the Detachment for Iraq option and that Detachment will hold Baghdad. No idea if this will work yet, but at least it is an active plan. I am amazed that the Belgian HQ can be shipped to Basra though. I don't think the Belgians were ever officially one of the Allies and the Belgian king was in charge of the military. Their government was based in Le Havre for the duration of the war even though Ypres was never taken by the Germans.

BillRunacre -> RE: Ottoman strategy (11/30/2020 10:53:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stockwellpete I am amazed that the Belgian HQ can be shipped to Basra though. I don't think the Belgians were ever officially one of the Allies and the Belgian king was in charge of the military. Their government was based in Le Havre for the duration of the war even though Ypres was never taken by the Germans. It is an interesting and historically unlikely move, but it's not something we can really prevent anyone from doing.

Ktonos -> RE: Ottoman strategy (11/30/2020 1:44:11 PM)
Shipping the Belgian HQ would be low efficiency move. It can only bring up the supply but the British units around Basra wont be able to attach to it. Better to move one of the 2 early British HQs.

Chernobyl -> RE: Ottoman strategy (11/30/2020 3:36:57 PM)
That might be true. If you think it's best to send that precious British HQ to Iraq. However if you want it in Serbia, Greece, Thrace or Italy then I think sending the Belgian HQ would still give a huge advantage for any units fighting in Iraq: supply increases their combat potential but perhaps most crucially any British unit there should be able to repair up to strength 10. For that reason alone you should be able to wear down the Ottomans and push on Baghdad early.

Chernobyl -> RE: Ottoman strategy (11/30/2020 3:41:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BillRunacre but it's not something we can really prevent anyone from doing. I was reading the wikipedia for the Mesopotanian theatre and it says historically the British were so unconcerned about it that they left the expedition entirely to the colonial Indian administration. I was thinking it might be cool to have some event where the British player can decide whether or not to spend MPP to open up the sea route to the Persian Gulf (else it remains closed until a set historical date). Say in mid 1915. This way it would prevent any super early (late 1914) transport of extra units to Basra, but still allow the option (at a cost in MPP = "political points") of sending units to Basra ahistorically early. Just a suggestion, not a demand. I'm having fun thinking of ideas for this game :)

Tendraline -> RE: Ottoman strategy (12/4/2020 12:59:36 AM)
Unless the Russians push hard in the Caucasus, it is entirely conceivable that the Ottomans would send units to attack the region, as ahistorical that would sound. The AI itself typically sends another detachment to the region to shore up the front. This is to say, in other words, keeping the sea lanes closed will unbalance the whole situation while the Ottomans hopefully hold everywhere else. Unfortunately, Halil Pasha is already in the game, just in the purchase tab. And I don't think there's not really a way to have the game engine sack commanders or rename them automatically. Maybe smack them with HP loss every time a commander dies? IDK. And a word about the Arabian situation in 1917: The Arabian units should already be there, and possibly a HQ for Lawrence of Arabia. But Ottoman morale should seriously not drop at the beginning because the revolt started once.

OldCrowBalthazor -> RE: Ottoman strategy (12/4/2020 5:49:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chernobyl quote: ORIGINAL: BillRunacre but it's not something we can really prevent anyone from doing. I was reading the wikipedia for the Mesopotanian theatre and it says historically the British were so unconcerned about it that they left the expedition entirely to the colonial Indian administration. I was thinking it might be cool to have some event where the British player can decide whether or not to spend MPP to open up the sea route to the Persian Gulf (else it remains closed until a set historical date). Say in mid 1915. This way it would prevent any super early (late 1914) transport of extra units to Basra, but still allow the option (at a cost in MPP = "political points") of sending units to Basra ahistorically early. Just a suggestion, not a demand. I'm having fun thinking of ideas for this game :) This is actually a rather good suggestion. The Ottoman player can stop a heavy Entente push up through Mesopotamia in front of Baghdad at least to late summer 1916, when the British get an artillery unit at Basra, but to do this, with the limited forces on hand, the Levant littoral and south Anatolia and/or the partisan zones around Mecca may have to be under defended. Example: In a current PM game I am in as the CP, my opponent went in early and heavy up from Kuwait. I managed to counter this with an HQ, 2 Inf corps, 2 cav, and 2 detachments, and stopped him in his tracks before he took Baghdad on the Nasiriyeh-Amara Line in early 1915. However, by doing this, I had to weaken 2 other active fronts and the interior garrisons. This front stayed frozen from late 14 to mid 16. The net result was I saved Baghdad, but then my opponent made brilliant feints in Sinai and a strong push into the Caucasus. Additionally, a UK/Greek force made a threatening move on the Thracian coast that I barely managed to stop with 4 Turkish corps and the Bulgarians pressing from the north. The Ottoman Army at this time was maxed out with the original OOB plus all the detachments and the Marine unit and a Zeppelin, had decent research going, but I couldn't cover everything in this vast Empire with just Ottoman troops. Because of this, and a delay in getting allied forces like detachments to adequately cover sensitive rear areas, I ended up with the full blown Arab Revolt. A key to resolving these problems is to conquer Serbia as fast as possible, and make that a lynch pin of an 'Ottoman Strategy' I presume. At least, with that problem resolved, the rear area outposts can be covered with detachments of Turkey's allies at the very least to cover vulnerable ports, towns, NM locations and partisan areas.

Chernobyl -> RE: Ottoman strategy (12/7/2020 11:07:12 PM)
What do you guys think is best to do with the Medina corps? I have been keeping it there but now I wonder if it's better to replace it with a detachment. Would a detachment at Medina become to vulnerable to partisans?

OldCrowBalthazor -> RE: Ottoman strategy (12/7/2020 11:42:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chernobyl What do you guys think is best to do with the Medina corps? I have been keeping it there but now I wonder if it's better to replace it with a detachment. Would a detachment at Medina become to vulnerable to partisans? Its best to keep the corps there until you can get a few detachments to cover the partisan hexes. Alternatively, you could pull the corp in Medina out early and replace it with a detachment..but if left on its own by late 1915 without the partisan spawn hexes covered, a lone detachment in Medina can't withstand a siege by said partisans. In a current pbem against ThisEndup (Entente)..I had moved out the corp in Medina and replaced it with a lone detachment. I waited a little too long to get some Bulgarian or Turk detachments to cover that (situation was pressing all over the Ottomans in other areas..the Arab revolt began..the railroad was cut..he besieged Medina's lone Ottoman detachment..and it fell in 3 turns before a column walking down the railroad line could lift the siege. The loss of Medina was devastating to the Ottomans NP. Lesson was already known but sometimes history repeats itself. [8\|]

Chernobyl -> RE: Ottoman strategy (12/8/2020 12:13:54 AM)
I usually have an additional detachment down there pretty quickly. So perhaps 2 detachments are cool until the events of 1916? I'm a bit unsure exactly what the "arab revolt" does exactly, but as far as I can tell there are 1) random spawns of partisans and 2) a dated event where the allies will choose to fund the arab revolt. At which point the supply of Medina goes way down (to like 1) and then seems to gradually recover. I get the impression that as long as you have any unit on or adjacent to those P hexes, no partisan will spawn EXCEPT for the scripted event partisans. Is this an accurate description? It seems to me like two detachments might hold out in 1915, but then by 1916 you might want 3 detachments or some cavalry down there. But I'm not sure.

OldCrowBalthazor -> RE: Ottoman strategy (12/8/2020 12:37:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chernobyl I usually have an additional detachment down there pretty quickly. So perhaps 2 detachments are cool until the events of 1916? I'm a bit unsure exactly what the "arab revolt" does exactly, but as far as I can tell there are 1) random spawns of partisans and 2) a dated event where the allies will choose to fund the arab revolt. At which point the supply of Medina goes way down (to like 1) and then seems to gradually recover. I get the impression that as long as you have any unit on or adjacent to those P hexes, no partisan will spawn EXCEPT for the scripted event partisans. Is this an accurate description? It seems to me like two detachments might hold out in 1915, but then by 1916 you might want 3 detachments or some cavalry down there. But I'm not sure. Thats correct..for example, leaving Ha'il alone (Rasheedi Territory, I believe) for awhile but covering the Medina area early with a few detachments is a good course. btw..an expensive detraction the Entente can pull is to land a Marine unit in Yanbo (or a throw away detachment). This can cause consternation with your Ottoman opponent for awhile.[:D]

Tanaka -> RE: Ottoman strategy (12/8/2020 2:57:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor quote: ORIGINAL: Chernobyl I usually have an additional detachment down there pretty quickly. So perhaps 2 detachments are cool until the events of 1916? I'm a bit unsure exactly what the "arab revolt" does exactly, but as far as I can tell there are 1) random spawns of partisans and 2) a dated event where the allies will choose to fund the arab revolt. At which point the supply of Medina goes way down (to like 1) and then seems to gradually recover. I get the impression that as long as you have any unit on or adjacent to those P hexes, no partisan will spawn EXCEPT for the scripted event partisans. Is this an accurate description? It seems to me like two detachments might hold out in 1915, but then by 1916 you might want 3 detachments or some cavalry down there. But I'm not sure. Thats correct..for example, leaving Ha'il alone (Rasheedi Territory, I believe) for awhile but covering the Medina area early with a few detachments is a good course. btw..an expensive detraction the Entente can pull is to land a Marine unit in Yanbo (or a throw away detachment). This can cause consternation with your Ottoman opponent for awhile.[:D] Where is Ha'il or Rasheedi territory? Don't see this on the map?

OldCrowBalthazor -> RE: Ottoman strategy (12/8/2020 4:03:56 AM)
Tanaka: 'Where is Ha'il or Rasheedi territory? Don't see this on the map?' [/quote] Ha'il is in the center of Arabia..it spawns a partisan if the Ottomans don't garrison it. Its quite a walk into the middle of know-where. [:D] The Rasheedi were a tribal confederation based in that dusty town..the name isn't presented in game, but I know about it. The Rasheedi didn't like the Turks, The Shareefans of Mecca, the Wahabbi of Riyadh....or anybody else. They like British gold however..and I will be encouraging that in our on going game :)

Chernobyl -> RE: Ottoman strategy (12/8/2020 4:32:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor The Rasheedi didn't like the Turks, The Shareefans of Mecca, the Wahabbi of Riyadh....or anybody else. What I learned from this historical period (Balkan Wars etc) is that where you can find an enemy, you can always find an ally (and vice versa).

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