Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (Full Version)

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Tanaka -> Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/26/2020 4:32:20 AM)

Always has been? Much bigger port than say Anchorage, Alaska which is?



BillRunacre -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/26/2020 10:05:54 AM)

Anchorage is needed to provide communications to Alaska.

I've no problem with adding Mobile though it would be very close to New Orleans, effectively just 1 hex away from that port.



ElvisJJonesRambo -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/26/2020 3:06:10 PM)

Interesting conversation or discussion. I've never mentioned anything.

If one want to be historical correct, you'd have to add Air Force Bases. Wanna say Pensacola, Florida, which is right over the bridge from Mobile, Alabama is loaded with Naval Air Force Bases. Florida panhandle has many Air Force bases. WW2, not exactly sure. Mobile is huge in U.S. Civil War. Fort Morgan if I remember correctly was tough to take when playing Victory Games U.S Civil War.

Back to Naval only bases. For SURE, Portland, Oregon and Vancouver, Washington was a Naval base. The dude name Kaisar (ironic, eh, German name), was CEO or something which had ship building industries in California and Portland, Oregon and Vancouver, Washington. Do not confuse Vancouver, Canada with Vancouver, Washington. Swan Island is the where all the Chinese Cargo ships come in now. Vancouver, Washington & Portland, Oregon cranked out lots & lots of ships. So is that a Port, for sure.

Next, this one hits home. Jacksonville, Florida for SURE was WW2 naval base at Mayport. My Uncle's Destroyer based there, and after being damaged by U-boats, returned, and was sent out in a Fresh Destroyer. Mayport still active. Wanna say that some Carrier was a museum draw recently.

Anyhow.

Pensacola, Florida more of Naval/Air.
Jacksonville, Florida should be a port.
Portland, Oregon and Vancouver, Washington a port.

I'm very impressed that the Tri-Cities of Washington and Spokane made the map. And of course, Boise, Idaho. The Columbia River Gorge is awesome.




Captjohn757 -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/27/2020 6:48:57 PM)

ElvisJJonesRambo: The Kaiser shipyard in Vancouver, WA was originally intended to build Liberty ships exclusively, but, as always happens, circumstances ultimately dictated otherwise. Only 10 Liberty ships were built there while the emphasis shifted to escort carriers. Kaiser built 51 Casablanca class escort carriers at Vancouver, fully a third of all U.S. escort carriers built during WWII. For those not familiar with the geography, Vancouver is literally right across the river (Columbia) from Portland --- given the scale of the Strategic Command map, they would likely occupy the same hex.



eightroomofelixir -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/27/2020 8:24:28 PM)

Thank you for the information - never thought the waterway of Columbia River is navigable for escort carriers.

The only case I know for a carrier sailing in the river before this is HMS Hermes' visit to Hankow in 1931. Hankow is on the Yangtze River, more than 500 miles inland from the Chinese east coast; Yangtze River is more than 1 km wide and can easily fit an aircraft carrier.



ElvisJJonesRambo -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/27/2020 10:26:39 PM)

Not sure if the Carriers went upstream, meaning East on the Columbia. That's for salmon fish, heading to the dam. No idea how deep the river is. For sure, the Columbia is wide enough for U-turns. Vancouver, Washington. I have no idea when the I-5 bridge was built, ah, duh, didn't FDR build bunch of Roads/Bridges right after the Great Depression in job's program. But it has a lift to let the big stuff through. Buddy of mine works on Swan Island, manages the unloading of the mega Chinese crates that come into the country to fill Dollar Tree & Walmart. The River from Astoria out seems more narrow, but gotta be deeper, no idea. Astoria is where Kindergarten Cop the movie was filmed. East into the Gorge is really badass. Hood River is where the wind tunnel is, winds whip around, you'll find zany windsurfers flock to do their thing. Skanmania Lodge Golf & Country club is badass. The Roast Beef/Fish buffet is top of the line. It's by the Dam. For bonus material, their Drone company testing all over the place.

Seattle is a blast. Traffic sux. Crime rate is mayhem in neighboring Puget Sound cities. Elvis filmed "Happened at the World's Fair" in Seattle, Space Needle, etc. Good song, watchable. Cameo Kurt Russell.

Vancouver, British Columbia is badass. The wax museum and ice cream is possible tops in the world. Ate couple 5-gallon drums their. If you really feeling tough guy, head North to Alaska. Or you can watch the movie, "Cliffhanger" to get the feel. Elvis only played in 1957, Toronto, according to records.

Mayport, Jacksonville, Florida is the U.S. Navy. The real deal, the military ships launched then and now. Transports filled up in New York back in the day, as many of the folks I knew, dead and gone sailed out from. All with a few to Europe for the Cold War. The USS Saratoga was there for museum. I did not go near it, because instead of 5-gallon ice cream, the King was too busy slamming Brew on Atlantic Beach. Now, I did go out the gambling junket boat, lol :) Elvis played there in 1956, famous Time Magazine with protester. That's another story, another time.

Pardon me if I'm sentimental
When we say goodbye
Don't be angry with me should I cry
Well, you're gone, yet I'll dream
A little dream as years go by
Now and then there's a fool such as I

The King >>>>>>>> OUT



Captjohn757 -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/28/2020 3:44:57 AM)

eightroomofelixir: Thanks to dredging, the Columbia River currently is about 40 feet deep at Portland/Vancouver; in WWII is was a little shallower, about 25 feet. A lot of container ships and bulk carriers ply the waterways today and getting a modern carrier that far upstream (about 100 miles from the coast) wouldn't be a problem; in fact there was considerable discussion a few years ago about docking the U.S.S. Ranger there (Portland) as a floating museum.



Tanaka -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/28/2020 5:38:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

Anchorage is needed to provide communications to Alaska.

I've no problem with adding Mobile though it would be very close to New Orleans, effectively just 1 hex away from that port.


Please do if no objections from anyone? There is a reason the Gulf of Mexico was a target for Nazi subs and it was ports like New Orleans and Mobile.



ElvisJJonesRambo -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/28/2020 6:21:13 AM)

I'd add Mobile/Pensacola, Portland/Vancouver, Jacksonville.



Tanaka -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/28/2020 4:03:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

I'd add Mobile/Pensacola, Portland/Vancouver, Jacksonville.


Not so sure about Pensacola as a port though as it was more of an air base? Jacksonville is pretty small. Vancouver is already a port in the game? Portland is way inland.



Bo Rearguard -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/28/2020 4:56:38 PM)

Plus, with every port you add to the map you're increasing a nation's MPP base aren't you?. The United States is already a powerhouse in that regard.



Torplexed -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/28/2020 6:08:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Vancouver is already a port in the game?


Vancouver, British Columbia in Canada is in the game. I think he's referring to the shipyard port of Vancouver, Washington U.S. across the Columbia river from Portland.



ElvisJJonesRambo -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/28/2020 6:23:42 PM)

Guess it's just my personal mindset. My brain thinks of Mobile & Pensacola as the "same place", I used to travel for business alot, including over that bridge dozens of time. Historical folks can/should verify.

Far as Portland, Oregon, being a port, yep, look at the name "Port-Land". I also, did not understand the history & the high volume of the Columbia River.....until seeing it first hand. When I first was told of Vancouver, Washington's ship building, I didn't believe it. Yeah, it's a River, but the ships go right in/out. Think about it, what makes Ports "good", is inlets, rivers, natural barriers. Cannot build & launch subs from Clearwater Beach. Need some Bays (Tampa, San Fran), inlets (Mobile), etc.

Remember the movie "Eagle Has Landed"? The transport port got beached on that mini-creek/river on low tide !!! So, I hear ya.

Far as Jacksonville, Florida, lol, you kidding me? 25,000 Navy Pilots their in World War 2, Cecil Field, that's on Westside, down the St. John's River. Mayport is on the Ocean, yet more use of the St. John's Waterway. Come on man, do NOT confuse Embark Points with a Naval Base. New York were the transports ships, because all the Troop Transports and Food/Ammo Transports used that major city. Jacksonville, Florida contained the COMBAT SHIPS.

Nazi U-Boat sunk the Destroyer using Mayport, see picture below. Gerry wasn't in Jacksonville just to watch the Gator Bowl or go golfing at Ponte Verde Beach.

Next, to say "Oh, it's just another American port, they have lots of money, doesn't matter". Mobile, Portland, and Jacksonville all significant. Warm water ports are available year round. New York was for Troop Transport. Obviously Norfolk & the Carolinas. To say adding will "give America more MMPs", then I'd counter, reduce Las Vegas from a 8-MMP city. Las Vegas was not a supply center. Wasn't cool until Elvis '69.
[image]https://www.jacksonville.com/storyimage/LK/20170409/NEWS/801246965/AR/0/AR-801246965.jpg[/image]



Tanaka -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/28/2020 6:36:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

Guess it's just my personal mindset. My brain thinks of Mobile & Pensacola as the "same place", I used to travel for business alot, including over that bridge dozens of time. Historical folks can/should verify.

Far as Portland, Oregon, being a port, yep, look at the name "Port-Land". I also, did not understand the history & the high volume of the Columbia River.....until seeing it first hand. When I first was told of Vancouver, Washington's ship building, I didn't believe it. Yeah, it's a River, but the ships go right in/out. Think about it, what makes Ports "good", is inlets, rivers, natural barriers. Cannot build & launch subs from Clearwater Beach. Need some Bays (Tampa, San Fran), inlets (Mobile), etc.

Remember the movie "Eagle Has Landed"? The transport port got beached on that mini-creek/river on low tide !!! So, I hear ya.

Far as Jacksonville, Florida, lol, you kidding me? 25,000 Navy Pilots their in World War 2, Cecil Field, that's on Westside, down the St. John's River. Mayport is on the Ocean, yet more use of the St. John's Waterway. Come on man, do NOT confuse Embark Points with a Naval Base. New York were the transports ships, because all the Troop Transports and Food/Ammo Transports used that major city. Jacksonville, Florida contained the COMBAT SHIPS.

Nazi U-Boat sunk the Destroyer using Mayport, see picture below. Gerry wasn't in Jacksonville just to watch the Gator Bowl or go golfing at Ponte Verde Beach.

Next, to say "Oh, it's just another American port, they have lots of money, doesn't matter". Mobile, Portland, and Jacksonville all significant. Warm water ports are available year round. New York was for Troop Transport. Obviously Norfolk & the Carolinas. To say adding will "give America more MMPs", then I'd counter, reduce Las Vegas from a 8-MMP city. Las Vegas was not a supply center. Wasn't cool until Elvis '69.


But again Jacksonville was more of an airbase. Just talking ports here. Mayport was being built as the war went on. As far as Vancouver/Portland US I don't think the game recognizes inland ports or river ports? Agree about Las Vegas.



Torplexed -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/28/2020 6:42:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Agree about Las Vegas.


Hard to say. Yes, Las Vegas was a sleepy Mormon pioneer settlement until the boom accompanying the construction of the nearby Boulder/Hoover Dam in the 1930s. (That's when the first casinos arrived as well) The dam originally was equipped with four 82,500 kW and one 40,000 kW generators, producing cheap electrical power that later supplied the defense and aircraft industries of southern California. Maybe that's what the 8 MPPs represent. Without input from the designers we can guess all day.



ElvisJJonesRambo -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/28/2020 7:35:14 PM)

Okay, I'm biased about Jacksonville, got some personal history there. Like my Uncle's Destroyer based there. Maybe the best Naval Bases are the one's we don't know, I can sleep with that :) Yeah, "it was being built during WW2" that's the point. It was built especially for WW-2. Think Warm Water. You're not gonna start building new Naval Bases in frozen Portland, Maine on December 8th. He-he, another Portland shows its face.

Now, we agree on Mobile. Agree with Portland/Vancouver, some of us. Split opinions on J-ville. Agree on Vegas.

How about making Mo-Town supply center 25? For the Euros, Motown is slang for Detroit City. Home of Ford, and General Motors. As Webster quoting to the defeated Gerries in "Why We Fight", episode 8 of Band of Brothers.

Detroit is more than a 12. Easily 25.



Captjohn757 -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/28/2020 9:00:21 PM)

Hey, Elvis, good try about "Port-Land", but no cigar this time. As all those from the Great Pacific Northwest are obligated (or condemned, as the case may be) to espouse, Portland when founded was to be named after Boston or Portland, Maine. The Maine version won by virtue of a coin flip (true fact). Speaking of which, Portland, ME was named after the Isle of Portland in England . . . unfortunately, no one from the Stone Age could write, so we have no idea how that Portland got its name. What significance does this have for Strategic Command. Well, actually, none.



ElvisJJonesRambo -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/28/2020 9:19:28 PM)

Captjohn757 --- Thanks for the reply. Last time I called a Captain, it was Captain Morgan :) Had no idea how Portland got its name. Not much of cigar smoker, rough on the lungs, but thanks for no cigar. Speaking of naming citie, how about "DeLand, Florida"? That little midget guy must have walked inland from the Atlantic Ocean with Ponce DeLeon and said "De Land, De Land".

Back to Portland, Oregon. Here's great song by Loretta Lynn & Jack White, love it! Slam some drinks and enjoy the riffs.

Well, Portland Oregon and sloe gin fizz
If that ain't love, then tell me what is, uh huh, uh huh
Well I lost my heart, it didn't take no time
But that ain't all, I lost my mind in Oregon
In a booth in the corner with the lights down low
I was movin' in fast, she was takin' it slow, uh huh, uh huh
Well, I looked at him and caught him lookin' at me
I knew right then we were playin' free in Oregon
Next day, we knew last night got drunk
But we loved enough for the both of us, uh huh, uh huh
In the morning when the night had sobered up
It was much too late for the both of us in Oregon
Well, sloe gin fizz works mighty fast
When you drink it by the pitcher and not by the glass, uh huh, uh huh
Hey bartender, before you close
Pour us one more drink and a pitcher to go
And a pitcher to go
(And a pitcher to go)
And a pitcher to go
(And a pitcher to go)
And a pitcher to go
(And a pitcher to go)
Yeah
And a pitcher to go
And a pitcher to go



Bo Rearguard -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/28/2020 9:32:03 PM)

Well, if we're going to do geographical nit-picking, mine would be the inclusion of Port-aux-Français in the Kerguelen Islands, a French territory in the Southern Indian Ocean near Antarctica.

On the one hand, I think it's cool. [8D] This is the first war game I ever owned that had the rather obscure archipelago of Kerguelen in it. But these desolate islands were virtually deserted in the war years except for the occasional visit by a whaler or German raider. The settlement of Port-aux-Français wasn't even established until the 1950s and even today it's only a tiny Antarctic research base. It certainly wasn't contributing anything to the French economy at the time.

My hunch is that the port was included to give Allied ships a base from which to replenish and heal up while chasing Axis submarines chewing on the long convoy lines running from Australia and New Zealand to Cape Hope.

[image]local://upfiles/28866/57659AAC16CF489CAA8D613CD9B4564F.jpg[/image]



Nami Koshino -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/29/2020 1:29:21 AM)

Kerguelen did have its one World War II moment of fame. In 1940 the German auxiliary cruiser Atlantis while ducking British cruisers in the Indian Ocean, hid in one the the channels there to take on water and fix grounding damage. A crewman fell to his death while painting the ships funnel and was later buried ashore in what was called "the southernmost of all German war graves". They described the place as a Godforsaken wilderness.



Tanaka -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/29/2020 1:37:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nami Koshino

Kerguelen did have its one World War II moment of fame. In 1940 the German auxiliary cruiser Atlantis while ducking British cruisers in the Indian Ocean, hid in one the the channels there to take on water and fix grounding damage. A crewman fell to his death while painting the ships funnel and was later buried ashore in what was called "the southernmost of all German war graves". They described the place as a Godforsaken wilderness.


Very interesting!



Tulius Hostilius -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/29/2020 6:42:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Please do if no objections from anyone? There is a reason the Gulf of Mexico was a target for Nazi subs and it was ports like New Orleans and Mobile.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bo Rearguard
Plus, with every port you add to the map you're increasing a nation's MPP base aren't you?. The United States is already a powerhouse in that regard.


Any introduction of a new port will change the already existing balance. I think it is hard to be precise at this map scale and options must be made. We saw in the map, particularly in the pacific, Islands that are much bigger that they are in reality just for gameplay reasons.



ElvisJJonesRambo -> RE: Why is Mobile, Alabama not a port? (5/29/2020 4:56:05 PM)

It's all good. Leave the geo-coordination of the Pacific Northwest, to Lewis & Clark. Those two had some extra help or some special tools, that's for sure. For historical purposes, they got it covered with CEO Kaiser. History, I'm talking about history. David Farragut is the expert on invading Mobile, Alabama.

Make Mobile, Portland, Jacksonville ports and reduce Las Vegas so the MMPs add up the same, doesn't hurt the game balance at all.

I'm an entertainer, not a mapmaker,
-EJR

I came home with good intentions
About 5 or 6 years ago, yes I did
I came home with good intentions
About 5 or 6 years ago
My so called friends stopped being friendly
Oh but you can't keep a good man down

I'm like a stranger, like a stranger in my own home town






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