RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta18 AIR FORCES (last update 23 nov!) (Full Version)

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Vic -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta18 AIR FORCES (last update 23 nov!) (11/24/2020 6:56:06 PM)

Here is the benchmark file from the beta19 I just uploaded.

http://www.vrdesigns.net/openbeta/analytics_air.pdf

I think its getting very close to how I intended it to be.

Sharing the formula's... we'll see about that. Its more like code than formula's in reality.

best wishes,
Vic



Destragon -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta18 AIR FORCES (last update 23 nov!) (11/24/2020 7:16:07 PM)

Thanks for sharing again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic
Sharing the formula's... we'll see about that. Its more like code than formula's in reality.

Even if it's egytian hyroglifics, it's better than having to guess. [;)]

I was wondering for example about how wings affect the dogfighting score. Increasing the size of wings will make the plane better at turning, but also less speedy. So the player kinda has to know if the turning or the speed is the more important factor when desgning an interceptor.



Vic -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last update 25 nov!) (11/25/2020 4:03:23 PM)

And beta20 posted!

Thanks once more to everybody who submitted bugs and :) also those who tested the beta but did not find any.

best wishes,
Vic



DasTactic -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last update 25 nov!) (11/25/2020 4:52:56 PM)

I'm having trouble trying to figure out what planetary parameters raise or lower air pressure to try and keep the air pressure greater than the gravity for aircraft. Is there something in the early planet generation that we should look at to gauge what the pressure might be? When I saw the extremely high air pressures in the analytics_air.pdf I was thinking I must be missing something.

As a suggestion, perhaps add another History setting to increase the air pressure on a planet.



Destragon -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last update 25 nov!) (11/25/2020 5:39:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DasTactic

I'm having trouble trying to figure out what planetary parameters raise or lower air pressure to try and keep the air pressure greater than the gravity for aircraft. Is there something in the early planet generation that we should look at to gauge what the pressure might be? When I saw the extremely high air pressures in the analytics_air.pdf I was thinking I must be missing something.

I think it's just gravity? But I guess maybe spin could have an effect, too.
I already said it, but my main issue with trying to generate a planet with thick atmosphere is that the screen that generates the atmosphere doesn't actually tell you how many mbar of pressure there are. Only the screen after that one tells you, but if you're not happy with the number there, you have to start the whole planet generation from scratch.

quote:


As a suggestion, perhaps add another History setting to increase the air pressure on a planet.

I think straight up letting you change a parameter of the planet with the history classes doesn't sound very fitting, but I could maybe see something like "during colonisation, the settlers have terraformed the planet to have an earth-like atomsphere and environment".



DasTactic -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last update 25 nov!) (11/25/2020 8:29:56 PM)


quote:


I think it's just gravity? But I guess maybe spin could have an effect, too.
I already said it, but my main issue with trying to generate a planet with thick atmosphere is that the screen that generates the atmosphere doesn't actually tell you how many mbar of pressure there are. Only the screen after that one tells you, but if you're not happy with the number there, you have to start the whole planet generation from scratch.

I agree that this is now an important consideration. I did randomly generate a planet of .38g and 770mbar today on the livestream. But would be nice to know why.

quote:


I think straight up letting you change a parameter of the planet with the history classes doesn't sound very fitting, but I could maybe see something like "during colonisation, the settlers have terraformed the planet to have an earth-like atomsphere and environment".

The animal history is from earlier than colonisation so I thought it would still work by placing it in there.



Clux -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last update 25 nov!) (11/25/2020 9:26:58 PM)

Adding the Independent OOBs of AT guns and FLAK was really appreciated, but could also the RPGs receive some love? I don't see the reason of why their firepower shouldn't be optimized due Small Arms or Payload Optimization.



washtana -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last update 25 nov!) (11/26/2020 12:33:45 AM)

Not sure if this is normal or an issue. Started a new game with beta 20 and a minor city is next to my city (they are touching). Also, another minor is 4 hexes away and another is 6 (within 10 hexes they're 4 cities including mine).






Clux -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last update 25 nov!) (11/26/2020 3:30:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: washtana

Not sure if this is normal or an issue. Started a new game with beta 20 and a minor city is next to my city (they are touching). Also, another minor is 4 hexes away and another is 6 (within 10 hexes they're 4 cities including mine).



Its not normal to have cities exactly next to each other, normally they are at least 5 hexes away, I would suggest to send the save to Vic so he can check it out



washtana -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last update 25 nov!) (11/26/2020 12:08:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Clux


quote:

ORIGINAL: washtana

Not sure if this is normal or an issue. Started a new game with beta 20 and a minor city is next to my city (they are touching). Also, another minor is 4 hexes away and another is 6 (within 10 hexes they're 4 cities including mine).



Its not normal to have cities exactly next to each other, normally they are at least 5 hexes away, I would suggest to send the save to Vic so he can check it out


Thanks, sent Vic the saved game.



solops -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last update 25 nov!) (11/26/2020 12:48:59 PM)

Wow. I am now getting a slow-down in turn processing like never before. This is new to v19/20.



solops -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last update 25 nov!) (11/26/2020 1:29:55 PM)

I forgot! I DID tick the new allow AI more time button. It makes a HUGE difference in turn time. )I am around turn 200).



Vic -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last update 25 nov!) (11/26/2020 4:05:12 PM)

No new build today. Very probably tomorrow v106-beta1. Trying to see if I can still squeeze in addressing the AI road spaghetti complaints.

best,
Vic



Destragon -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last update 25 nov!) (11/26/2020 6:48:57 PM)

Hey Vic, I may have asked this already, but is there any way for testers to access debugging commands or cheats to help with testing? I mean, it could help with testing the stuff that's late in the tech tree, which most people probably haven't really checked yet.



Gywox -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (11/26/2020 8:21:12 PM)

I do not seem to get any resources back when I scrap aircraft in city with SHQ. Playing beta 20. Tested with the ones you get from the beginning.



Vic -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (11/27/2020 9:50:17 AM)

They get returned to Zone if scrapped from Unit, they return to SHQ inv if scrapped from Unit. Just double checked. It does work.



Destragon -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (11/27/2020 12:19:27 PM)

Vic, I have a random question about the Steam release.
Will you make use of Steam's opt in beta function for the beta updates in the future, so that we can get these updates automatically without having to manually drag and drop them into the game directory, or will you keep the beta versions separate from steam? Not sure if you have experience with this feature. If you're afraid of too many people opting into the beta and complaining about bugs, you can attach a simple password to it like "there will be bugs" as a reminder.



Gywox -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (11/27/2020 12:38:01 PM)

I misunderstood the following, they seem to end up in the zone inventory and not in the SHQ inventory on the left.

Commander of 1st SHQ:
We scrapped 1 Thunderbird in 1 Units.
We recuperated: 22 Fuel, 9 Ammo, 1 Food, 24 Metal and 2 Machines
>>>"Note that there Items are given to Zone inventory unless the Troops scrapped were in a SHQ."<<<
1 Population has been returned to Zone(s).

Do not really know what you intended with one population back, you only get back the pilot, not the ground crew?
I think you need 300 in manpower (crew) for 30 fighters (a brigade unit).



Soar_Slitherine -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (11/27/2020 1:03:45 PM)

Internally, the game seems to count population units consisting of 100 people each. For display purposes it just adds two zeros after the number of population units to show the "real" amount of population. In this case you probably got 100 population back, it just left out the zeros.



Vic -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (11/27/2020 3:44:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

Vic, I have a random question about the Steam release.
Will you make use of Steam's opt in beta function for the beta updates in the future, so that we can get these updates automatically without having to manually drag and drop them into the game directory, or will you keep the beta versions separate from steam? Not sure if you have experience with this feature. If you're afraid of too many people opting into the beta and complaining about bugs, you can attach a simple password to it like "there will be bugs" as a reminder.


Matrix will stay the prefered place for beta's. But i'll probably move some of them over to Steam as well after initial testing done here OR serious bug that needs ASAP fixing.



Vic -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (11/27/2020 3:48:34 PM)

Posted the next beta. Already named v106-beta1 as it is probably more ahead than the upcoming v106 official release.

It should fix the worst road spaghetti the AI can create.

Best wishes,
Vic



DasTactic -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (11/27/2020 4:43:12 PM)

Just wanted to say I played a game (recording for YouTube for the Steam release) hard Nemesis on a small planet and the AI was brutally good. :) Super impressed with what it did.

It switched attacks that weren't working for it. It flanked like a demon going through Minors to get behind my forces. It sacrificed some units to cut supplies off. And it pulsed its attacks to allow itself time to build up forces.

I was just shaking my head thinking 'Wow!'.

Great work Vic. :)



Destragon -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (11/27/2020 10:22:21 PM)

Here's an example of the AI road building changes from 1.06:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/504754524079259678/782023305284419584/roads_before.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/504754524079259678/782023338939383829/roads_after.jpg

Seems to be working.

Edit:
On another topic, it looks to me like weight increases hitpoints on aircraft, is that right?
This is actually kinda funny-weird, because this means my bomber helicopter has more health than my rocket helicopter, because of more weight. It's using its explosives as extra armor.

[image]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538907913138208790/782045633673691207/unknown.png[/image]



Nemesison -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (11/28/2020 7:32:57 AM)

Mmmm...

I don't find it too strange...

In air combat usually more bulk translates into less chances to hit something vital.

I guess it would come down to what the extra bulk is composed of?

Empty weight, extra armor, redundant systems...



Vic -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (11/28/2020 8:39:12 AM)

Bump. Small patch focussed on improving AI speed with Slow AI = OFF



Destragon -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (11/28/2020 10:15:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemesison

Mmmm...

I don't find it too strange...

In air combat usually more bulk translates into less chances to hit something vital.

I guess it would come down to what the extra bulk is composed of?

Empty weight, extra armor, redundant systems...

The extra weight in this case is a 3 ton heavy bomb load and maybe a couple more tons of fuel tank.



Nemesison -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (11/28/2020 1:14:05 PM)

Yeah, but in Shadow Empire when you put a bomb hatch on a vehicle it also adds cargo space, so... Empty Weight? [:)]

Also, thinking at WW2, you don't really hear of bombs detonating on planes during air combat



Vic -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (11/28/2020 6:39:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

Edit:
On another topic, it looks to me like weight increases hitpoints on aircraft, is that right?
This is actually kinda funny-weird, because this means my bomber helicopter has more health than my rocket helicopter, because of more weight. It's using its explosives as extra armor.

[image]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538907913138208790/782045633673691207/unknown.png[/image]


There can be random effect of upto 50 hitpoints.

The basis for HP calcs is the SIZE model variable by the way.

best,
Vic



Destragon -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (11/28/2020 6:46:05 PM)

Yeah, I know about the size influencing the hitpoints, but both of those helicopters have the same size.
The first version is 13k kg and the second version is 7.5k kg, so I assumed the hitpoints are based on that.
Is it not based on the weight and the difference is just random here?



Daza99 -> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) (11/28/2020 7:14:11 PM)

Will there in future be special GR Air force units that the player sometimes acquired or finds? or is this already implemented? Can the Ai get these too (question includes currently with other types of units)



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