Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (Full Version)

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Kamelpov -> Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/7/2020 8:07:25 PM)

When it require 35 relation to peace out is weird even eu4 warscore work better in my opinion.
As AI now won't gift money so peace by increasing relation is a bit more harder + it look stupid to use only the gift system.
It should have more way to increase relation and also to get a third party at war like three kingdom total war if we wanted a fleshed diplomacy system with autobalance deal but you can delay that part as the war system isn't complete.



Bleek -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/7/2020 8:10:59 PM)

I know what you're saying.

I have no idea how to peace out because I need a 'positive' 35 relationship... but, we're at war?

Perhaps we've misunderstood something.



Kamelpov -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/7/2020 9:08:18 PM)

Well in order to get a truce you know ? If you are at war with 2 major the only choice you get is to send gift to AI and fund their war economy...



Cornuthaum -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/7/2020 9:53:54 PM)

I kept looking through my Foreign Office options for some diplomacy stratagems to use to end a war but apparently once you'Re at war with a major you're at war with them literally forever because there's no peace stratagems?



t1it -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/7/2020 10:04:18 PM)

This is a big oversight. I hope it gets dealt with ASAP.



budd -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/8/2020 12:20:46 AM)

I've seen propose peace offerings for both minor and major factions. I've only used the minor, and it didn't work, I rolled an 84 and needed above a 950[:D] for the peace offerings to work. Think you need the right council to get them, but there in there.



Bleek -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/8/2020 9:42:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: budd

I've seen propose peace offerings for both minor and major factions. I've only used the minor, and it didn't work, I rolled an 84 and needed above a 950[:D] for the peace offerings to work. Think you need the right council to get them, but there in there.


Yep, even if you're smashing your opponent in to the dirt - the skill roles still remain impossibly high!

It forces you to remain at war indefinitely, which isn't ...fun? I want time to rebuild and recoup, deploy a bite more strategy and planning - not just steamroll the planet!



KingHalford -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/8/2020 11:29:01 AM)

I'm pretty sure that if you force your opponent into a corner their relation with you rises and you can get the peace deal. Nobody is going to give up on a war they're not losing though.

This is for the best. 4X games are notorious for the players being able to force peace way too easily when they're struggling, powering up a bit and then crushing the AI at a more convenient moment. The best ones have systems that only accept peace when a human would.



budd -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/8/2020 11:53:19 AM)

Been at war with a minor slaver regime for most of the game since they jumped me early. Sent them some free money 400 credits, failed the roll, they kept the money and sent back the head of my envoy...yikes....guess ill have to crush them[;)]



KingHalford -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/8/2020 12:04:03 PM)

Ah, I was talking about the Majors... I think there's some work being done to Minor diplomatic actions, but I agree that you should have the option to force them to go to peace. Honestly, if you've been at war with them and they're beaten badly enough to surrender I'm not quite sure why you'd want to but it's a big game and I guess anything is possible!



Bleek -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/8/2020 12:15:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KingHalford

I'm pretty sure that if you force your opponent into a corner their relation with you rises and you can get the peace deal. Nobody is going to give up on a war they're not losing though.

This is for the best. 4X games are notorious for the players being able to force peace way too easily when they're struggling, powering up a bit and then crushing the AI at a more convenient moment. The best ones have systems that only accept peace when a human would.


Fair comment.

I'll have to play longer to see how resilient the AI is, thus far it seems suicidal. [:D]



springel -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/8/2020 1:06:05 PM)

In my current game I get loads of 'Plea of Friendship' cards, improves relationship by a random number, cost 5 PP, easy 30 difficulty, and I improved my relationship with a major power at war up to 90, with two more cards to spare.



ZygfrydDeLowe -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/8/2020 1:15:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

In my current game I get loads of 'Plea of Friendship' cards, improves relationship by a random number, cost 5 PP, easy 30 difficulty, and I improved my relationship with a major power at war up to 90, with two more cards to spare.



You cannot use "Plea of Friendship" on a faction you are at war with, and that's the situation OP is referring to.
Once at war, you seem to be stuck at war.I need to play more to see if beaten AI will really increase it's relations and peace will be finally available.

But KingHalford has a fair point. That way it's not easily exploitable with false peace offerings. In many games you can just dump cash on improving relations and basically buy the treaty you want.



Cornuthaum -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/8/2020 1:34:31 PM)

Managed to make peace with a major, at the low low cost of having to spam them with Gift Credits cards for several turns before *finally* getting a Propose Peace card to come out of my foreign office.

This ain't right. If it's working as intended, I will go on record saying i disagree with the intent, if it's *not* working as intended it needs fixing. I shouldn't have to throw credits at the people I'm fighting in order to generate at least a truce, especially not when I'm overwhelmingly winning.



Bleek -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/8/2020 2:04:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZygfrydDeLowe
In many games you can just dump cash on improving relations and basically buy the treaty you want.


Which unfortunately seems like the only solution in this game! [:(]



W8taminute -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/8/2020 2:05:29 PM)

I've also noticed that you cannot peace out with a major, even if you are winning the war, unless you have relations set at 35. Since there does not appear to be a way to raise relations other than showering the major with a lot of money I think this is not fun. If the player is clearly winning the war by taking ground and killing a lot of the major's units then the major should be the one asking the player for mercy.

This is a great game and I love it but to be constantly at war and under constant pressure to build military forces to ensure you are still alive to maybe build a candy store or two in one of you towns does not make for much fun. There is no time to build up your economy in peace. One thing that is certain however is that the player quickly learns how to balance building for war vs. building for economy while under constant pressure of war. I have learned a lot in this way and it's all due to literally someone holding a gun to my head.



Bleek -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/8/2020 2:05:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cornuthaum

Managed to make peace with a major, at the low low cost of having to spam them with Gift Credits cards for several turns before *finally* getting a Propose Peace card to come out of my foreign office.

This ain't right. If it's working as intended, I will go on record saying i disagree with the intent, if it's *not* working as intended it needs fixing. I shouldn't have to throw credits at the people I'm fighting in order to generate at least a truce, especially not when I'm overwhelmingly winning.


Yep, if that's correct and the only method - it's worst than rubbish. In fact it's a big step backwards for gameplay.

Let's hope we're doing something wrong!



Vic -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/8/2020 2:38:04 PM)

I am paying attention. Going to take a second look at this.



Bleek -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/8/2020 2:54:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

I am paying attention. Going to take a second look at this.


We don't want it to be made easy, however gaming the system by paying off the enemy seems really gamey.

Perhaps the enemy leader traits could sway the 'war score' i.e. if they're heroic they're more likely to fight to the death, or close to, etc.

Therefore, each AI's war behaviour is biased a certain way. Some will be happier to peace out than others.

For example certain traits should essentially ignore bribes (sending cash to raise relations), whereas others are more inclined to bend because of bribes.

The list goes on and on, of course.

Using a leader's traits to determine their behaviour like this would make for various war styles, keeping the player on their toes and second guessing.

This would also work for how biased an AI is to starting wars too, or how they approach warmongering.

I also appreciate this isn't a quick fix and is just my opinion. [:)]



Cornuthaum -> RE: Diplomacy with major while "at war until death" (6/8/2020 3:01:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

I am paying attention. Going to take a second look at this.

Could you please up the likelihood of a Propose Peace card being generated? It is such a basic diplomatic tool that having to wait multiple turns (it took me from turn 48 to turn 63 in this game) for this one card to show up is just intensely frustrating.



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