Battlefield salvage (Full Version)

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GodwinW -> Battlefield salvage (6/12/2020 12:31:48 PM)

This started with me really liking the flavor of the very small battalions with GR grade weapons.

I was thinking we could maybe get the ability to replace just the non-jetpack (other equipment would probably be destroyed along with the troops manning it) infantry GR units (unless the unit is wiped completely the surviving troops fully realize the worth of the weapon and/or armor and recover it from the battlefield to give to a replacement). Would love to keep them around a bit.

But then I expanded on the idea:

I could see a general battlefield salvaging chance: battlefields are littered with destroyed and still functioning weapons and machinery dropped or abandoned as the losers fled.

Then there can be a flat % chance per model types involved (rockets having a higher chance to destroy infantry equipment than infantry has to destroy infantry equipment (bullets being small, weapons too)) to have equipment survive. And then GR units would of course follow that.

This would mean that if we got lucky and salvaged a number of advanced enemy tanks we could outfit one unit with them raising that model type one time.

This would be a rather far in the future thing if ever I imagine, there's more urgent stuff, but I like the idea (especially as hard-pressed infantry against a technologically superior foe) of taking over enemy equipment and using it against them.
Could even combo with some new Covert Ops stratagems: Steal military equipment!



zgrssd -> RE: Battlefield salvage (6/12/2020 1:05:44 PM)

There is the "Scavenger Team" unit feat, from Commerce -50 (Opportunism). It gives you credits for kills.
One of the Priests Unit Feats from one of the cults has similar effect.

One issue with just salvaging gear is:
The gear and the soldiers that use it are not seperate entities. They are part of one combo package. If you can not upgrade or replace the gear, you lierally can only send the soldiers with the gear to the SHQ.

You need some palce to get the soldiers from. And you will have to feed those soldiers. And if you scrap them those soldiers should not go back to your recuritment pool.
It is not an issue with GR gear, as that happens really rarely and it is really to valuable to even consider scrapping.



TheSquid -> RE: Battlefield salvage (6/13/2020 9:20:01 AM)

Instead of obtaining the model for instant use, it would be cool if battlefield salvage could potentially accelerate the discovery of military techs, or if the tech has been discovered, provide a small bonus to research.

Either that (or additionally) help discover a model, or provide a bonus to model research if the model has already been discovered. Or even better still, finding/salvaging a model/design from an enemy may prompt a discovery of a potential counter model/tech.

After all, many military technologies were developed in response to what the enemy was using, and what they were doing with it.

Alternatively (or additionally), simply enemy formations could potentially accelerate discovering formations or assist in operationalising them, or assist in discovering postures.

Not sure how feasible it is to do this with the way the game works currently, as a system such as this could quite easily become ridiculously complicated and convoluted in no time. But in theory, some obvious/basic counters (e.g. potential anti-armour tech when you discover enemy armour) should be viable - even if it's just a hidden thing that happens in the background (e.g. increase the likelihood of certain tech/models being discovered based on what you've scavenged from the enemy).



GodwinW -> RE: Battlefield salvage (6/13/2020 10:06:24 AM)

I have also thought of reverse engineering indeed, but to me it's cooler to use something when not being able to mass-produce it than it is to be able to mass-produce it a bit earlier. It just leads to cooler stories :)



Vhalor -> RE: Battlefield salvage (6/13/2020 10:25:32 AM)

This area of the game could certainly use some attention. In a post-apocalyptic scenario scavenging battlefields seems like a very natural part of the game. But right now it seems you also not only just execute any prisoners on the spot, but also destroy all their equipment and supplies! Waste not, want not...



zgrssd -> RE: Battlefield salvage (6/13/2020 10:29:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

I have also thought of reverse engineering indeed, but to me it's cooler to use something when not being able to mass-produce it than it is to be able to mass-produce it a bit earlier. It just leads to cooler stories :)

That would however make the whole equipment System a lot more complicated.

Right now we got Recruits in SHQ + IP and Raw Materials = working troops with gear.
I like this simplicity. I worked with the other System in Hearts of Iron 4, and I disliked the complexity of having to manage gear and troops seperately. But then they might have made it a bit more complicated and then whole realtime aspect and complexity of production was an issue as well.



TheSquid -> RE: Battlefield salvage (6/14/2020 8:26:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vhalor

This area of the game could certainly use some attention. In a post-apocalyptic scenario scavenging battlefields seems like a very natural part of the game. But right now it seems you also not only just execute any prisoners on the spot, but also destroy all their equipment and supplies! Waste not, want not...


Actually that brings to light an obvious omission in such an environment: the lack of an option to enslave populations en mass.

Sure we can technically employ people for nothing but food. This is almost slavery, but not really since the people choose to work for you (or not, or even leave). So we end up having to get people to like us before they'll work for us.

While for most jobs slaves wouldn't cut it, one would think they'd be useful as a supplementary manual labour force, e.g. in construction or mining. Possibly also in tech/model development, as test subjects (humans would be much easier to handle for this than the native wildlife, especially since "native wildlife" usually means giant scorpions). ;)



GodwinW -> RE: Battlefield salvage (6/14/2020 10:17:26 AM)

There are Stratagems for Forced Relocation etc. though, idk if you know this. If you did, what do you mean that's different then?



siRkid -> Surrended Uits (6/18/2020 2:39:36 PM)

Do you recover resources when a unit surrenders to you? I think you should.



zgrssd -> RE: Surrended Uits (6/18/2020 3:18:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: siRkid

Do you recover resources when a unit surrenders to you? I think you should.

Do you mean raw resources (IP, Metal, Rare Metal)?
Or something else?



Prussia -> RE: Surrended Uits (6/20/2020 7:45:43 PM)

In Pride of Nations one could capture cannon after the battle- can't recall if other, more advanced types of weaponry could be captured/salvaged from the battles aftermath. Warships if I recall correctly could be captured as well. Ah the joy and ecstasy of capturing your first Armored Cruiser is quite profound.



zgrssd -> RE: Surrended Uits (6/20/2020 8:01:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prussia

In Pride of Nations one could capture cannon after the battle- can't recall if other, more advanced types of weaponry could be captured/salvaged from the battles aftermath. Warships if I recall correctly could be captured as well. Ah the joy and ecstasy of capturing your first Armored Cruiser is quite profound.

Again:
Equipment and the 100 Manpower that is using it, currently form a indivisible unit. Unless you got upgrade or scrap it, those guys and their XP are permanently tied to those guns.
The kind of salvage you are picture would require storing equipment. Wich requires adding a place to store it in the first place. Nevermind the code rework for Raise and Replenishment that is needed.
Or you would have to get troops for free from some place. It would be a big rework for the game we got now.

Getting the crew for some GR gear for free? Not a problem.
Having that happen regulary after every fight? Problem.
Having it be based on specific combat hit results? Well, there goes the balance for unit feats like the Negotiator!

Rare Metal, IP, Fuel, Food? That as salvage should be absolutely fine. We already can get credits with the Scavenger team.



Ekaton -> RE: Surrended Uits (6/20/2020 8:32:16 PM)

This should definitely be in the game. In the world of scarcity, scavenging everything you possibly can should be very common. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to reuse or at the very least fully scrap captured equipment, particularly when the enemy surrenders.



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