Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (Full Version)

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Freigeist83 -> Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 1:50:57 PM)

Stumbled upon "World War II Europe 1939-1945" the other night and really like the old school map and counter graphics:

http://schwerpunkt.games/misc/games/world-war-ii-europe-1939-1945/

Considering that there are not too many operational level wargames nowadays, this seems to fit a niche.

I found a couple of older reviews, which unfortunately do not go into too much detail:

https://kriegsimulation.blogspot.com/2014/12/world-war-ii-europe-new-game-from.html

http://grogheads.com/review/7117


With 50 USD the game is not really a bargain and it still appears to be in development (last update V1.0.11 from 28th December 2018).

I have to admit that I am a bit sceptical that one person can research, develop and design the complete second world war in Europe on that level with historically accurate results.


Is anyone actively playing this and could share their opinion on the game?

Are there designer notes available for download somewhere?



Lobster -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 2:29:43 PM)

The game can seem somewhat clunky. But once you understand how it works it is fun. Most of the scenarios have been completed. There are only a couple of them left. That would be the huge ones that cover all or much of the war. Some people can't get past the way the game works and so give it bad reviews. It's one of those hate it or like it games, no in between. I'm glad I bought it. Reminds me of the old games from SPI, GDW, etc.

Ron, the lone developer, has said he will look into making the game less clunky to new users once everything is done. I'm thinking that may not come to pass but only time will tell.



Simulacra53 -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 4:10:02 PM)

In light of the competition is it worth USD 49,-?

AI?



Lobster -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 4:56:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulacra53

In light of the competition is it worth USD 49,-?

AI?


Yes it has a programmed opponent. Can't think of any game that has a true artificial intelligence.

I spent that much and more on games, played them once and was unhappy with them. So, you have to ask yourself if you want to take the risk. True of any game out there.



Simulacra53 -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 5:04:34 PM)

Thanks, I know the drill - however I was hoping for something more positive as a recommendation.
Luxury situation, plenty of other titles to play.

Cheers.



Freigeist83 -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 5:09:42 PM)

The main criticism in the past seem to have been the game interface and not the mechanics, rules or scenario design.

Found this video from the developer on YouTube (funky style to record a video [:D]):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjn0g24Vdu4

Although the interface appears a bit clunky, the explanations of the developer sound pretty logical...


Talking about competitors in the market of operational level wargames, I guess there aren't too many contenders I can think of:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/792660/The_Operational_Art_of_War_IV/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/370540/Gary_Grigsbys_War_in_the_East/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/644710/Gary_Grigsbys_War_in_the_West/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/454530/Decisive_Campaigns_Barbarossa/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/354600/Decisive_Campaigns_Case_Blue/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/337760/Decisive_Campaigns_The_Blitzkrieg_from_Warsaw_to_Paris/


Would love to hear the opinion of someone who is playing WWII-E on a regular basis. [:)]



MrsWargamer -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 5:45:31 PM)

It is a grognard game all the way.

If you would like Gary's titles, then Ron's game is your thing.

If you like John Tiller's games, then Ron will be your thing.

My only beef with Ron, payment methods.



pkpowers -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 6:32:23 PM)

the order of battles and research on scenarios are excellent, but the interface will drive you mad....[:@]



Simulacra53 -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 7:51:08 PM)

I like John Tiller campaign games.
Before getting WW2E I’ll force myself to play more WitE/W.

...came very close to ordering WW2E but JTS a sale soon and Scheldt 44 must be around the corner.
Last but not least the Steam summer sale is getting very near - with potential a couple of titles and dlc on my wish list.

Not even talking about real life.
Temptation is sometimes hard to resist.

WW2E can wait a little longer I guess
[:D]



Lobster -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 8:00:53 PM)

So many games. So little time. [:D]



Freigeist83 -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 9:07:10 PM)

John Tiller's Panzer Campaign Series is great.

But I really like about WWII-E that it shows detailed combat results including modifiers and the map and counter style are just awesome.

I guess we need to convince Ron to start a summer sale at Schwerpunkt Games as well... [;)]

There will be a lot of competition in the coming weeks.

Found the unofficial manual and reference sheets if anyone is interested to take a closer look:

http://dogsofwarvu.com/forum/index.php/topic,2538.0.html



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 9:36:15 PM)

Link to my thoughts, having had Anglo-German War since around 2006, and the newer World War II Europe since its release:
http://dogsofwarvu.com/forum/index.php/topic,7790.0.html

I think the only competition is TOAW, the others mentioned in this thread aren't as capable as TOAW or WWII-E in designing scenarios from other time frames. WWII-E is much more limited than TOAW in this respect.

My opinion is that Ron, as genuinely nice a guy as he is, is oblivious to how truly poor the UI is. Watching his video makes it look easy, but this only serves to demonstrate an inventor operating his invention and not how others would use it. This game could up-end TOAW as the best Operational Game, but both titles suffer from very limited and very one sided development.



Gilmer -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 9:41:49 PM)

I've almost pulled the trigger once or twice on one at least of the Schwerpunkt games. And I've never gone through with it. It intrigues me. I've seen how the interface works and it is a little wonky, but it kind of makes me think, "Yeah, I could do that."



Freigeist83 -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 9:43:24 PM)

Quoting Ron from the discussion sPzAbt653 posted:

"Many times the conversation comes to why can't your games be like "Game X". When I talk with the developer of "Game X", they tell me that their users ask why can't they be like Schwerpunkt games!"

That's a funny statement... [:D]

Is it true that he works at NASA?



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 9:44:37 PM)

From my own personal Game Review notes, I'll add - The successor to 2005's 'Anglo-German War 39-45' is 2016's 'World War II in Europe', but it doesn't seem to have improved enough to be worth buying. The main issues are the interface, and the editors. There is no map maker or map editor, there is no event editor, and the Scenario Text Editor is easy to mess up and limited in its abilities. This title has suffered the same complaints for YEARS.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 9:48:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Freigeist83
Quoting Ron from the discussion sPzAbt653 posted:
"Many times the conversation comes to why can't your games be like "Game X". When I talk with the developer of "Game X", they tell me that their users ask why can't they be like Schwerpunkt games!"

That's a funny statement... [:D]

Yes, that is why I say he is oblivious. I've never seen anything like that, and I'd like to see anybody provide a link to such a thing.

I should add that I do recommend that folks that are interested buy WWII-E, because maybe they could be one of the handful of folks that find it acceptable. I've played the heck out of it and constantly find it very frustrating. I never get used to it. THen when I go back to TOAW I have to relearn it. Why can't life be easy?



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 9:54:43 PM)

quote:

My only beef with Ron, payment methods.

I understand your personal preferences and respect that, but for what it's worth I went ahead and purchased and had no issues. If you balk at the outdated payment methods, wait til you hear this about the purchase. I expected to get a download or physical option, but did not. During the purchase I provided a fake e-mail as I always do [no reason for an e-mail, I won't provide one]. A couple hours later I got a call from Ron himself, on a Sunday, explaining that he was trying to e-mail the link to the game download and my e-mail wasn't working. lol. I gave him my real e-mail. It seems he doesn't have a site to host the game.



RangerJoe -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 10:05:10 PM)

Maybe, just maybe, if you made a video of your problems with the interface and possible suggestions for improvements and then sent it to him, then the issues that you have with it could be taken care of. Or maybe not. But you won't know until you try.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/14/2020 10:17:05 PM)

I picked what I thought were easy to explain and understand examples and posted them to him. I did this as a test of his desire to improve the game. The results of that effort are what I linked to in post #12 above. Therefore, I don't think the effort of making a video would help, at this point.



MrsWargamer -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/15/2020 2:10:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Freigeist83

Quoting Ron from the discussion sPzAbt653 posted:

"Many times the conversation comes to why can't your games be like "Game X". When I talk with the developer of "Game X", they tell me that their users ask why can't they be like Schwerpunkt games!"

That's a funny statement... [:D]

Is it true that he works at NASA?


Don't know if it is Nasa, but his day job is in aero industry or something like it.
But it is just him and his wife doing this out of their basement.

I will likely get his game when I can manage the money through Paypal (which I find a dreadful pain in the ass... no fan of Paypal).

But it is possibly true, that if one has AGW (I do), it might not be enough of an improvement to merit the dedication.

I would like to point out, if one is not an ASL fanatic, playing Tigers on the Hunt can be a less than ideal experience. I think the interface and methods of that design were mangled too.

And only a hardcore gamer and World in Flames fan will say anything polite about the computer version.

Some of our greatest games are a pain to play. Europa Fire in the East is a 6'x8' who has that much table monster.



RangerJoe -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/15/2020 2:36:45 AM)

WITP-AE is a clickfest monster. It could use some improvements that will never happen.



demyansk -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/15/2020 9:15:54 AM)

I have the Russo-German war game but never really played it. Just a little too clunky.



Freigeist83 -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/15/2020 2:30:45 PM)

Just found an interview with Ron:

http://grogheads.com/interviews/8116

"I would like to encourage the wargamers to put ideas out on the forum. We listen closely."

Does not sound like he is not approachable...



budd -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/15/2020 2:42:30 PM)

He hasn't posted in the forum since march as far as I can tell. The UI being overly clicky, and the slow map scrolling usually keep me from playing for very long.



Lobster -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/15/2020 6:48:57 PM)

In the last release scrolling is improved. East/West just put the cursor to the map edge and it scrolls smoothly. Using the arrow keys it moves about 8 hexes each time you hit the key. Maybe if your computer is a bit aged it might not be as smooth, can't say. North/south I use the arrow keys because it's still too hard to hit the 'sweet spot' for scrolling. But even using the arrow keys it's much improved over what it used to be like. Moves about four hexes each time you hit the key. Again, maybe an older machine will make it slower, don't know.

Clicking on the mini map moves you to wherever you click for long distances.

Trying to register on the forum can make you crazy. If you make a mistake it doesn't bother to tell you where the mistake was made. It simply puts you back at the beginning of the registration process. [sm=crazy.gif]



budd -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/15/2020 7:12:39 PM)

Yes, it was marginally improved with an update, it's still painful. My computer's not to old, it's a gaming laptop. I use the arrow keys to move around, to fiddly to use the edge scrolling. I'll click the arrows on the mini map also. Zooming is also delayed. Basically the whole UI could use optimization. I've thought about getting the middle east game but how the UI functions keeps me from buying. I like the map, counters, and there is a whole lot of content for your dollars but damn, getting around in the game isn't....it's strongest feature[:D]



Simulacra53 -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/17/2020 7:38:43 AM)

Curiosity killed the cat...

[:D]



jmlima -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/17/2020 11:02:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulacra53

In light of the competition is it worth USD 49,-?

AI?


Yes.

The AI is pretty much like most wargames, good in some things, appalling in others.



zakblood -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/17/2020 7:38:32 PM)

i like the look and feel of the game and as always would be interested in the Arnhem part, but got far too many games atm unplayed, but once finished i'd buy it



Freigeist83 -> RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 (6/17/2020 8:51:43 PM)

Had a closer look at the manual and the scenarios are pretty well researched with short designer notes and detailed literature references.
A really unique collection of scenarios that you will probably not find in other games and based on scale and number of counters appear quite playable.

The menu design follows the phases of the game. And those phases and mechanisms are quiet sophisticated, but logical.
I think most of the criticism of the interface / menu stems from the fact that the reviewers have not fully grasped the game cycle.

However, there appears to be a little performance issue: clicking a button lets your mouse cursor spin for a second; scrolling the map is not really smooth
and is better done via the keyboard's number pad, which could surely be fixed.

Overall, it has a strong board game feeling and the graphics hit a sweet spot for me. Will do more testing next weekend when I have more time.

I think with more community involvement and some code refactoring to improve performance, this game has IMO the potential to replace TOAW.




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