Since I hate airstrikes so much

Since I hate airstrikes so much (Full Version)

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rbrunsman -> Since I hate airstrikes so much (7/30/2003 4:24:41 AM)
I thought I'd spill the beans on the spotting problems created with their use: If you plot your airstrike for 0.1 or 0.2 delay, you get to see ALL of your opponents units when they strike so you may want to zoom out a little to get a better view. If you plot your airstrike for 0.3+ delay, your opponent gets to see ALL of YOUR units.:eek: Neither situation is fair so airstrikes should not be a staple of your force selection. ... Oh, wait a minute, I'm supposed to use every tool at my disposal to beat my opponent, so of course, I'll be buying a couple cheap airstrikes in all my PBEMs from now on so that I can get all the free intel I can. This is especially important in the new H2H.fr with it's reduced spotting.

Buzzard45 -> ???? (7/30/2003 9:29:22 AM)
There is something that I didn't know. I thought all sides were revealed and only fly over my enemies side of the map. It never used to be that way. Some vehicles but not all were revealed and sometimes stayed spotted into your next turn if they were not moved during your opponent's turn. :confused: Maybe that was SPWW2. There is sooo much to remember and keep up to date on. When you think you have all the tricks learned ( its just like a woman with rules) they change some or all without notice. Especially if they suspect that you know all the rules. (women that is) Say? What ever happened to the spotter planes? The ones that you could control thei flight path and altitude?

VikingNo2 -> (7/30/2003 10:51:31 AM)
There is even a way to make planes fly every turn and never run out of ammo, saw it in a post somewhere. I like airdrops but only on very large maps where the opponent can't cove everywhere. RB do airdrops show all units as well ?

Frank W. -> (7/31/2003 2:53:53 AM)
yep. that´s a prob indeed. perhaps better to not use any air craft in PBM´s at all.

rbrunsman -> (7/31/2003 3:27:26 AM)
It's also a handy way to locate the general area that infiltrators are in when you're playing in H2H.fr-- if you get my meaning V2.;)

tracer -> (7/31/2003 7:12:37 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank W. [B]yep. that´s a prob indeed. perhaps better to not use any air craft in PBM´s at all. [/B][/QUOTE] That's always been my rule. ;)

Orzel Bialy -> Yes... (7/31/2003 7:16:07 AM)
just another good reason for me to rule out A/C from my Pbem's! I don't like airdrops or airstrikes for Pbems...I believe it should be ground forces duking it out. ;)

Losqualo -> (7/31/2003 2:26:44 PM)
Hi Orzel, did you notice that your name is spelled wrong (Orzel Baily) at the Arsenal Homepage? :eek:

Capt Chris -> (7/31/2003 8:27:29 PM)
I had a PBEM opponent fly airstrikes for 3 turns straight on me. I think I saw an average of 10 planes per turn. He must have bough 10 or 15 sections of those **** P-51's. Needless to say it wasn't a very enjoyable game. Gee!:rolleyes: That lopsided the game so bad it wasn't even funny. The only way I will agree to airstrikes now is if they are limited in number, and I am playing against a reputable player. Most of the time it is no airstrikes at all which is fine with me.

rbrunsman -> (7/31/2003 11:33:41 PM)
The problem is that, even if you are a reputable player (and I hope I'm known as one), is that with airstikes you are left with the dilema of getting the "all seeing" peek at your opponent's forces or giving him the free peek at all of your forces. What's a player to do? I suppose you could avert your eyes when the airstrike is going to happen, but really, is that the way to play it? I think not. The best way to handle it is to have the basic ground rule for PBEMs that there will be no airstrikes unless specifically agreed to by both players. Airstrikes should be a rare occurance since you may as well turn off the "Fog of War" option when using airstrikes.

odog1999 -> (7/31/2003 11:50:23 PM)
Maybe what they should do in later versons of SP:WaW would be to show the animation of aircraft attacking, and then at the end of the turn get a report from the pilot, if they survive, saying what they attacked, and estimates of what forces it could see. This way, the player doesn't see where on the map units are, only a rough estimate of what the other player has that the a/c saw. I also hope they take away the blind artillery reports, where the message window shows casualties from indirect bombardments

Vathailos -> Well... (8/1/2003 12:48:18 AM)
That's not a bad train of thought actually. Let me try and switch tracks for just a second. It would seem fair if you (your pilot) could get a glimpse of targets on his aproach run (and call them back, roughly). But perhaps the replay should be at maximum zoom (or the next level up) so that the whole map wasn't revealed. In addition, the pilots would need to make a spot check. I think if they indeed flew over enemy territiory, paying the price as it were (taking flak and OP-fire from troops) they should be able to report back (at least seeing something as large as an Elephant or JagdTiger for example). I do not however think that the enemy should get a free peek at your forces via your airstrikes. That needs to be fixed. In addition, a limit on the number of overflights one plane could make would solve the constant recon problem. Say 2 per plane? If the guy's spending 90-150/pop on sorties, let him waste his money. If aircraft are counted as "artillery" (as they should be IMO), then that eats up his points (assuming you're playing with a % limit).

Toontje -> (8/1/2003 1:13:20 AM)
Light, obsolete aircraft with maybe 50 kg bomb load are not that expensive. But spotting depends on more than just overflying, speed, height and vision is also of influence. Without fighters, a tail and bottom mg turret have good vision on the ground below at relative slow speeds, whereas a 1seat fighter has a lot less spotting up it's sleave. And with currently modelled FLAK, that's not too much of a price IMO.

VikingNo2 -> (8/1/2003 1:31:59 AM)
How many times they fly is linked to how much ammo and how much damage they have taken, if you lower your vis ( here we go again ) I believe it will not show all of the bad guys units. But I'm not sure. I like airstikes and air drops, but don't use them unless specificlly stated in the set up. On large maps I don't see all the enemy units when I airstrike or airdrop. I doesn't seem to happen everytime? RB is it linked to the .02 and .03 specificly

Vathailos -> Correct V2 (8/1/2003 1:40:28 AM)
Any damage, and they're gone. Also ammo, once they're totally depleted, they're gone. But IIRC, there are two or three more variables. One is the pilot making a skill check to return again after their "main" ordinance is expended (bombs gone, but still cannon or MG rounds left, for example). Another is the skill of the FO (or unit calling in the airstrikes), the higher the skill, the greater the chance that they'll be able to "call them back". And one final item may be type of plane, or rather it's category. I think that regular fighter-type planes aren't called back (or don't get called back nearly as often) as specialized ground-attack/fighter-bombers are. Not sure what's changed over the upgrades, but I remember GE BF110's (?) being able to return over and over with a good FO, still raking AFV's with their 20mm cannon even after their bombs are expended.

rbrunsman -> (8/1/2003 6:22:47 AM)
In a large map you may not be able to see every unit on the map, but the tactical map in the lower right hand corner lights up like an X-mas tree for every location of an enemy unit. You can therefore see where troop concentrations are. And, to make it more of a scouting extravaganza, what you do is buy your airstrikes before your arty. Then your airstrikes arrive before your arty when you plot bombardments. So, what you have is the airstrike making every unit visible and then as the arty falls thereafter, you get a perfect view of the enemy's positions everywhere you've plotted your arty.:eek: The same goes for the situation where you light up your own units by bombarding at a delay of 0.3+:eek: V2, I think your thought that it appears to have a randomness to it may have something to do with whether you have bought your arty first or your airstrikes first as I explained above. This all just dawned on me by watching the replays of our 4-way game with Jess & Gary and with our current game of IT v UK. Vat, if you've ever seen a European forest, they're pretty thick in my experience, so I don't think there is any pilot in the world able to see a tank, no matter how large, if it's in a wooded hex. And, where were you when I needed someone to back me up when I was claiming that airstrikes should count as arty for buying purposes? I needed you. I have been thinking they were part of the arty buy for 18 months and then I'm told by everyone else that I'm wrong.

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