RE: Empire of the Sun (Full Version)

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Alfred -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/20/2020 11:59:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

I very much see the benefit of operations targeting Allied industry in Australia. I can't pursue such a strategy in this campaign however as our house rules preclude strategic bombing until June 1943.


You can try naval bombardment and if you are very, very, very lucky ....

Alfred




DesertWolf101 -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/20/2020 5:21:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

I very much see the benefit of operations targeting Allied industry in Australia. I can't pursue such a strategy in this campaign however as our house rules preclude strategic bombing until June 1943.


Well, there's a lesson in here about the comparative merits of house rules [:D]


The rule is not entirely one sided though. I don't have to worry about protecting the Magwe oilfield and home island industry for at least another year and it also gave me free reign to capture the oil fields in the SRA very early without fear of providing them with adequate protection.




DesertWolf101 -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/20/2020 5:23:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

I very much see the benefit of operations targeting Allied industry in Australia. I can't pursue such a strategy in this campaign however as our house rules preclude strategic bombing until June 1943.


You can try naval bombardment and if you are very, very, very lucky ....

Alfred


Yes indeed. I actually accumulated 90 Strategic Points when I heavily bombed the Australian ports in the first few days of the war.




DesertWolf101 -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/22/2020 8:50:35 AM)

March 18, 1942

Turns are finally starting to flow at the normal pace.

South Pacific

Pago Pago is given another good shelling by my battleships. This is followed up by a deliberate assault that only manages a 1 to 2 ratio. It looks like I will have to soften up the Marines here for a while longer before I overcome their defense.

India

A number of Allied sweeps come in over Diamond Harbor this turn. The first sweep of 10 Hurricane IIb fighters is annihilated by a low CAP, but they do manage to tire out my fighters and the subsequent Hurricane IIa and P-38E sweeps do better. 12 Hurricanes and a P-38E are lost for 4 Zeros and 2 Oscars over Diamond Harbor this turn.

My success in the air over Diamond Harbor is balanced out by a largely failed air attack on Dacca. In an attempt to hit the P-38E fighters based there, I lose 8 Sallys and 4 Nells to the defending Hurricane CAP and manage only to knock out one P-38E on the ground.

China

The Japanese Army investing Chungking was finally rested enough to attempt a sixth attack on the city. Unfortunately, the result was decidedly subpar. Forts were knocked down to 0 but at the cost of some 450 Japanese combat squads disabled. I will likely wait for some reinforcing infantry divisions before I try again. Meanwhile, the Japanese air force will keep busy hitting the airfields and the Chinese troops in the city. The hardest thing about this siege is the way the Chinese formations keep coming back. The destruction of a large number of Chinese Corps earlier in the campaign is coming back to haunt me.




RangerJoe -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/22/2020 3:00:30 PM)

But when they come back, there is not enough artillery devices for them.




Lowpe -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/22/2020 3:04:46 PM)

It is March 18, 1942 and Chungking has 0 forts. You have done it about as fast as humanly possible.

What is far worse is destroying the isolated Chinese units with no valid retreat paths.




DesertWolf101 -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/22/2020 4:04:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

But when they come back, there is not enough artillery devices for them.


Yes, thankfully so. Their lack of firepower is likely the reason why the vast bulk of my losses in the siege have been in disabled rather than destroyed squads.




DesertWolf101 -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/22/2020 4:08:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

It is March 18, 1942 and Chungking has 0 forts. You have done it about as fast as humanly possible.

What is far worse is destroying the isolated Chinese units with no valid retreat paths.



It is true that in hindsight I could probably have been a little more careful with the destruction of some of the Chinese units. On the flip side however, the majority of those were largely unavoidable as my opponent did a good job of repeatedly placing them on and along my critical supply routes. I wouldn't have been able to reach Chungking at the time I did if I had not dealt with them.




RangerJoe -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/22/2020 4:17:24 PM)

If you can, push them into a position where you can surround them, invest them, control every hexside and then just leave a unit strong enough to defeat them defensively but not to destroy them until later. But a good opponent may not allow you to do that and will try to sacrifice them if it does happen.




DesertWolf101 -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/27/2020 3:40:57 AM)

March 19, 1942

Submarines

I-28 launches six torpedoes at heavy cruiser Vincennes at Umnak Island but failed to score a hit.

India

I was met with some bad news in my nightly bombardments of Calcutta this turn. DD Karukaya, a small Wakatake class destroyer, hits a mine and promptly sinks.

P-38E fighters come over Diamond Harbor again today. I lose 8 Zero fighters for 4 P-38Es.

Burma

B-17E bombers raid Rangoon but the local Zero CAP disrupts their aim.

The 14th tank regiment takes Katha.




DesertWolf101 -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/27/2020 3:41:49 AM)

March 20, 1942

India

I lose yet another Wakatake class destroyer to the minefield at Calcutta. I have lost two destroyers in the span of just two days to the same issue, an equal number to the total number of destroyers I have lost thus far in the campaign before these latest losses.

An Oscar sweep successfully batters a Hurricane CAP over Comilla, shooting 5 of them down.

Bay of Bengal

My subs spot the damaged CVL Hermes heading for repairs at Ceylon. What is left of MKB will dash in to attempt to finish off the vessel next turn.




RangerJoe -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/27/2020 12:56:03 PM)

Do you have any minesweeper to sweep Calcutta? If not, it might be a good idea.




DesertWolf101 -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/27/2020 3:41:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Do you have any minesweeper to sweep Calcutta? If not, it might be a good idea.


I do, but my opponent made sure to place some coastal artillery in Calcutta. Whenever my minesweepers get close they get chewed up.




RangerJoe -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/27/2020 8:16:54 PM)

Then keep the range from the base to around 15,000 and include the minesweepers in your force.




DesertWolf101 -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/27/2020 8:31:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Then keep the range from the base to around 15,000 and include the minesweepers in your force.


Interesting - I will try that. Thanks.




DesertWolf101 -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/28/2020 9:35:57 AM)

March 21, 1942

India

Having noted that my opponent has only seen the Imperial Guards and the 5th Division up to this point in India through ground action and air bombing, I decide to attempt to lure my opponent into a costly mistake. He had previously mauled one of my exposed tank regiments at Jessore and I decided to entice him into another similar attack. Another tank regiment sped forward into Jessore last turn, while the main army is set to arrive this turn.

Luckily, the plan works – the Allies order a deliberate attack and instead of smashing a lone tank unit find themselves assaulting an additional six veteran IJA infantry divisions. Both the 6th and 7th Australian divisions suffer some serious damage and the 84th Indian Brigade is entirely destroyed. The Japanese Army suffers relatively light losses of about 180 disabled squads.

The Calcutta bombardment reveals the presence of the 18th British Division. My army will continue its effort to surround the city.

South Pacific

US Navy carriers reveal themselves near Penrhyn Island when they strike and sink two out of three IJN destroyers that were on a scouting mission. The KB has hereto remained hidden in the shadows near Savaii but it is now mobilized to attempt to intercept the American carriers.

Bay of Bengal

The damaged CVL Hermes is caught by the MKB near Tricomalee in Ceylon and falls victim to a rain of bombs and torpedoes. Scouting aircraft from the MKB also sight some British R class battleships at Colombo and attempt to hit them but are met with murderous flak and miss.

North Pacific

Torpedo equipped Mavis flying boats attempt a strike on some US Navy cruisers near Umnak Island but miss.




DesertWolf101 -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/28/2020 9:41:07 AM)

Situation in India

Now that the Allied army has weakened itself in its attack on my main Japanese force, I will attempt to maul it with my own attacks and continue the effort to encircle the large Allied force at Calcutta.



[image]local://upfiles/55490/5D100FF5A0D648268651B170CA75AEEF.jpg[/image]




DesertWolf101 -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/28/2020 10:45:38 AM)

March 22, 1942

South Pacific

Night search from the KB picks up the US carrier task force but the KB loses track of the task force during the day. Sub pickets to the south near Tahiti are lit up by Allied ASW/search so the KB will dart in towards that direction the next turn.

India

Sally and Nell bombers pound the Allied forces at Jessore paving the way for a relatively successful first attack by the Japanese army. Forts are reduced from 3 to 2 and the Australian, British, and Indian units are punished a bit more. One or two more attacks and I should be able to take the base. I divert the tank regiments south to guard the supply line to Diamond Harbor as I note a potential effort by the Allies to cut off my army.

Indian Ocean

The MKB heads southwest deeper into the Indian Ocean tracking a distant contact that appears to be some Allied tankers. Will attempt to intercept next turn.

Northern Australia

A Japanese paratrooper regiments drops on Daly Waters, wipes out the NW Australian Aviation Regiment and seizes the base. This should hopefully further restrict the flow of supplies to the northern Australian forces.




DesertWolf101 -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/28/2020 4:57:06 PM)

March 23, 1942

The Naval Battle of Tahiti

With the break of dawn deep in the South Pacific, Kate torpedo bombers and Jake float planes head out on their naval search missions. It wasn’t too long before the first strident messages started coming in. With every new sighting report the picture became clearer - the Kido Butai found itself a mere three hexes north from what appeared to be a strong US carrier fleet, with another major force of surface warships located seven hexes away at Tahiti. My intention was to place the Kido Butai a bit farther away from the US Navy here but still within strike range – but I will take it.

The Kido Butai gets the first strike in the morning, with 117 Val dive-bombers and 125 Kate torpedo bombers escorted by 54 Zeros going in for the kill. The escorting Zeros do a phenomenal job pushing past the Wildcat CAP and the bombers begin their attack runs unscathed. Despite my frustration with the very large number of bombers who decide it was a good idea to go after destroyers instead of the larger warships, the result was pretty good.

The Yorktown takes five torpedo hits and sinks like a rock; the Enterprise is heavily damaged with two torpedo hits and four 250 kilogram bomb hits (one of which results in an ammo storage explosion); and the Saratoga takes 8 250 kilogram bomb hits (two belt armor) and a torpedo and is also listed as being heavily damaged with heavy fires. Aside from the carriers, the strike also sinks the heavy cruiser Chester with two torpedo hits, heavily damages the heavy cruiser Salt Lake City with two torpedo hits, sinks DD Patterson with 5 bomb hits, and inflicts varying damage on two more heavy cruisers and a destroyer.

The US Navy gets its chance at revenge next, with 68 Dauntless dive-bombers and 27 Devastators escorted by 39 Wildcats coming in for the kill. The large CAP of 87 Zeros pushes past the escorting Wildcats and cuts into the bombers to deadly effect. Even so, my fighters suffer a bit from a reverse Midway phenomenon here – large numbers of them climb to deal with the dive bombers and the fighters allowing a substantial number of Devastators to slip through unscathed at lower altitudes. My opponent somehow managed to get a really good coordinated strike in here despite the staggered altitudes.

In the end, 27 Dauntless bombers and 19 Devastators survive the Zero onslaught. The dive-bombers all miss their targets, but the Devastators score for the Allies when they put 4 torpedoes into the Kaga, one of which fails to explode. A delayed package of 14 Devastator TBs follows up right after this strike but is mauled by the Zero CAP and flak.

With all three US CVs either sunk or heavily damaged. This was the end of the US Navy air attacks. I was looking forward to the afternoon KB strike but this was disrupted in part by the need to take on Kaga’s strike planes as well as weakened by the assortment of small strikes that went in against some Allied battleships at Tahiti to no effect.

In the end, only 21 Val and 4 Kate bombers go in against the US CVs in the afternoon. They do good work though, placing a further three bomb hits on the Enterprise and likely finishing her off too, and heavily damaging the heavy cruiser Chicago and moderately damaging the heavy cruiser Northampton.

The biggest concern I am left with here is that the Brooklyn light cruiser Nashville remains unscathed and a mere three hexes away from the KB. Kaga is hurt with flotation damage in the mid-40s, but luckily with no fires. She is at about half speed and might very well not make it out of the surface engagements that will likely follow.




DesertWolf101 -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/28/2020 5:08:49 PM)

March 23, 1942 (continued)

Indian Ocean

Kate bombers from the MKB find three fuel laden medium sized tankers deep in the Indian Ocean and wreck them, aided by the exploding and burning fuel cargo.

India

Heavy bomber strikes on the Allied position at Jessore are followed up by another deliberate attack by the Japanese army. Despite the arrival of the 254th Armored Brigade as reinforcements, the Japanese forces prevail and drive the Allied forces back over the river into Calcutta.




[image]local://upfiles/55490/DDF850ADF2FB4425A3CABB7C45235445.jpg[/image]




Alfred -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/29/2020 2:35:18 AM)

That decisive victory at Jessore is the equivalent of Saladin's victory at Hattin.  A much more promising exploitation is now open to Japan.

Forget Calcutta.  Instead go to capture all of India.  Just leave enough force in Calcutta to prevent being ejected.

1.  Based on the data disclosed to date, I very much doubt there is much of an Allied field army left in the rest of India.

2.  Most Indian bases have no garrison requirements.  Those that do usually have a garrison requirement of 40 or less.  Other than a very few bases, like Bombay, Madras, Delhi and Karachi, the garrisons will be quite vulnerable to even small Japanese attacks.

3.  A couple of Japanese armour units can quickly capture a large number of Indian bases.  The impact on the capacity of Indian industry to produce local supply to feed the in theatre forces will be devastated.  Commensurately the benefit to Japan will be very significant.

4.  Substantial importation of supply will need to be undertaken by the Allies to both feed and reequip the shattered units from Jessore.  This importation will be very vulnerable to the MKB and some Netties.  Easy VPs to Japan.  When combined with the relatively low Allied device production rates, there ain't gonna be a new Allied field army in India soon.

5.  Faced with a rampaging and unopposed IJA in the countryside, the Allied commander then has to decide whether a retreat from Calcutta is in order.  Consequently going on an India wide conquest operation will probably make the capture of Calcutta much easier as the devastated Allied units move out.

Alfred




RangerJoe -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/29/2020 3:29:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

That decisive victory at Jessore is the equivalent of Saladin's victory at Hattin.  A much more promising exploitation is now open to Japan.

Forget Calcutta.  Instead go to capture all of India.  Just leave enough force in Calcutta to prevent being ejected.

1.  Based on the data disclosed to date, I very much doubt there is much of an Allied field army left in the rest of India.

2.  Most Indian bases have no garrison requirements.  Those that do usually have a garrison requirement of 40 or less.  Other than a very few bases, like Bombay, Madras, Delhi and Karachi, the garrisons will be quite vulnerable to even small Japanese attacks.

3.  A couple of Japanese armour units can quickly capture a large number of Indian bases.  The impact on the capacity of Indian industry to produce local supply to feed the in theatre forces will be devastated.  Commensurately the benefit to Japan will be very significant.

4.  Substantial importation of supply will need to be undertaken by the Allies to both feed and reequip the shattered units from Jessore.  This importation will be very vulnerable to the MKB and some Netties.  Easy VPs to Japan.  When combined with the relatively low Allied device production rates, there ain't gonna be a new Allied field army in India soon.

5.  Faced with a rampaging and unopposed IJA in the countryside, the Allied commander then has to decide whether a retreat from Calcutta is in order.  Consequently going on an India wide conquest operation will probably make the capture of Calcutta much easier as the devastated Allied units move out.

Alfred


+1
I agree with Alfred again! [X(]




Alamander -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/29/2020 3:37:27 AM)

I agree with Alfred as well. The allies are crushed. You may as well finish them. I don't see any hope for the allied player avoiding auto-victory on January 1, 1943 in this game if you pursue the path that Alfred suggests. In fact, with the loss of his CVs and China so early, the only hope that the allied player has is if you waste substantial time and deplete several key units at Calcutta.




DesertWolf101 -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/29/2020 5:58:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

That decisive victory at Jessore is the equivalent of Saladin's victory at Hattin.  A much more promising exploitation is now open to Japan.

Forget Calcutta.  Instead go to capture all of India.  Just leave enough force in Calcutta to prevent being ejected.

1.  Based on the data disclosed to date, I very much doubt there is much of an Allied field army left in the rest of India.

2.  Most Indian bases have no garrison requirements.  Those that do usually have a garrison requirement of 40 or less.  Other than a very few bases, like Bombay, Madras, Delhi and Karachi, the garrisons will be quite vulnerable to even small Japanese attacks.

3.  A couple of Japanese armour units can quickly capture a large number of Indian bases.  The impact on the capacity of Indian industry to produce local supply to feed the in theatre forces will be devastated.  Commensurately the benefit to Japan will be very significant.

4.  Substantial importation of supply will need to be undertaken by the Allies to both feed and reequip the shattered units from Jessore.  This importation will be very vulnerable to the MKB and some Netties.  Easy VPs to Japan.  When combined with the relatively low Allied device production rates, there ain't gonna be a new Allied field army in India soon.

5.  Faced with a rampaging and unopposed IJA in the countryside, the Allied commander then has to decide whether a retreat from Calcutta is in order.  Consequently going on an India wide conquest operation will probably make the capture of Calcutta much easier as the devastated Allied units move out.

Alfred


Solid and logical advice Alfred. I also very much doubt that the Allies have many forces in the rest of India right now as well. The Australian divisions, the British 18th, and a huge number of Indian forces have already either been sighted or engaged here. Many of these came as reinforcements from the rest of the subcontinent recently when it became apparent to my opponent that my main effort was here. There are also some substantial forces to the east in Assam as well. The biggest question in my mind is when the American divisions/units will be arriving in the wider theater.

I have seven infantry divisions in the Calcutta area right now. In the aftermath of the battle my plan now is to keep three with significant artillery support around Calcutta to bottle up the still very large albeit battered Allied forces there (intel reports 118,000 troops!). One division will head towards Ledo and start clearing Assam. Another will head towards Chittagong and connect with the Japanese forces advancing up from Akyab there (securing my overland communications and potential overland retreat path. And two will follow up the armored drive deeper into India. These can eventually be reinforced as more assets arrive.

My biggest regret, and a mistake linked to my inexperience with the game, is my failure to allocate enough paratrooper units to the Indian adventure. The one unit I did allocate is currently rebuilding at Rangoon from the battering it took with its early commitment at Akyab. This would have greatly facilitated my advance deeper into India, but now I have to mostly advance at the pace of my tank regiments. Any ideas how long I have before the American units start arriving in large numbers?




DesertWolf101 -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/29/2020 6:03:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alamander

I agree with Alfred as well. The allies are crushed. You may as well finish them. I don't see any hope for the allied player avoiding auto-victory on January 1, 1943 in this game if you pursue the path that Alfred suggests. In fact, with the loss of his CVs and China so early, the only hope that the allied player has is if you waste substantial time and deplete several key units at Calcutta.


I am currently in talks with my opponent about the status of the game. After the last turn, he congratulated me on my victories and said that he is thinking of surrendering. I in turn assured him that I did not really care about autovictory and was planning to play on to 1945 even if I get it (I am already past the 4 to 1 victory ratio right now). Given this is my first time playing Japan and my second AE campaign overall, I really want it to continue to see what the later years look like so I hope he takes heart from all the goodies that the Allies get in 1943 and beyond.

I should also be clear that I am still very much in danger in the South Pacific. The KB is right next to many powerful Allied surface warships and extricating it intact could be quite tricky. Not to forget that the Kaga is also heavily damaged.




Alamander -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/29/2020 8:24:50 AM)

Of course you should play on if you wish, but, if you take into account how much enjoyment you and your opponent will receive from playing on, I think you might be better off accepting surrender. You will, most likely, rout the allies from India by the end of summer. The Indian supply generation, coupled with the quick fall of China, which will reduce dramatically the drain on your supplies, will leave you with a massive stockpile.

With the losses that he has sustained and the lack of a western front, it will very difficult for him to begin his counter offensive until late 1943. You will go through a year or so, I would think, without much action. The game probably will not be competitive again until early 1944.

In my opinion, you would likely be better off starting a new game that will be more competitive from the beginning. There is reason the VP system is setup as it is, and in some cases, it would seem, auto-victory really does reflect an "end of game" situation. Not always, but in this case, it seems to.

I have a chance, certainly no better than 50/50 (and probably worse), to get to auto-victory in my game with Mike, but that is a much different situation. Mike has not lost many assets and is assembling forces within a reasonable distance of important objectives to begin a counter-offensive in earnest soon. He is not going to have to invade India from Aden, for example. In our case, an auto-victory would not signify the end of (or a long hiatus in) the competitive portion game, and we should both continue to derive a good deal of enjoyment from the time we spend playing until the inevitable collapse of Japan.




Alfred -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/29/2020 10:18:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

That decisive victory at Jessore is the equivalent of Saladin's victory at Hattin.  A much more promising exploitation is now open to Japan.

Forget Calcutta.  Instead go to capture all of India.  Just leave enough force in Calcutta to prevent being ejected.

1.  Based on the data disclosed to date, I very much doubt there is much of an Allied field army left in the rest of India.

2.  Most Indian bases have no garrison requirements.  Those that do usually have a garrison requirement of 40 or less.  Other than a very few bases, like Bombay, Madras, Delhi and Karachi, the garrisons will be quite vulnerable to even small Japanese attacks.

3.  A couple of Japanese armour units can quickly capture a large number of Indian bases.  The impact on the capacity of Indian industry to produce local supply to feed the in theatre forces will be devastated.  Commensurately the benefit to Japan will be very significant.

4.  Substantial importation of supply will need to be undertaken by the Allies to both feed and reequip the shattered units from Jessore.  This importation will be very vulnerable to the MKB and some Netties.  Easy VPs to Japan.  When combined with the relatively low Allied device production rates, there ain't gonna be a new Allied field army in India soon.

5.  Faced with a rampaging and unopposed IJA in the countryside, the Allied commander then has to decide whether a retreat from Calcutta is in order.  Consequently going on an India wide conquest operation will probably make the capture of Calcutta much easier as the devastated Allied units move out.

Alfred


Solid and logical advice Alfred. I also very much doubt that the Allies have many forces in the rest of India right now as well. The Australian divisions, the British 18th, and a huge number of Indian forces have already either been sighted or engaged here. Many of these came as reinforcements from the rest of the subcontinent recently when it became apparent to my opponent that my main effort was here. There are also some substantial forces to the east in Assam as well. The biggest question in my mind is when the American divisions/units will be arriving in the wider theater.

I have seven infantry divisions in the Calcutta area right now. In the aftermath of the battle my plan now is to keep three with significant artillery support around Calcutta to bottle up the still very large albeit battered Allied forces there (intel reports 118,000 troops!). One division will head towards Ledo and start clearing Assam. Another will head towards Chittagong and connect with the Japanese forces advancing up from Akyab there (securing my overland communications and potential overland retreat path. And two will follow up the armored drive deeper into India. These can eventually be reinforced as more assets arrive.

My biggest regret, and a mistake linked to my inexperience with the game, is my failure to allocate enough paratrooper units to the Indian adventure. The one unit I did allocate is currently rebuilding at Rangoon from the battering it took with its early commitment at Akyab. This would have greatly facilitated my advance deeper into India, but now I have to mostly advance at the pace of my tank regiments. Any ideas how long I have before the American units start arriving in large numbers?


Approximately 9 weeks from the time your opponent realised that Alpine Dingo was essentially a feint and West Coast units should be sent to India.

The timing is approximate as it depends on several factors but in simplified terms:

3 days to pack into strategic mode
4 days to reach the East Coast
38 days East Coast to Capetown
1 day to load at Capetown
10 days to arrive on map
5 days to cross the Indian Ocean and arrive at an Indian port
1 day to unload

There is your approximate 9 weeks.

Considering that Alpine Dingo appears to have fooled your opponent, he is probably still about 3 weeks out from Capetown. Quite possibly the bulk of the transfers are still 5 weeks from reaching Capetwon.

Of course your opponent could simply have redirected units already en route to, or already arrived, in Australia. Transit from Australia to India will be much quicker, somewhere in the vicinity of about 3 weeks from today but, and it is a very big but, the trip will be extremely dangerous. As a general rule, in AE Allied west - east passage of the Indian Ocean is relatively (emphasis on the word relatively) safe but south - north passage is very dangerous and not to be attempted without forming a very strongly protected convoy. Your opponent does not have the assets to safely transit south to north as his carriers are either sunk or heavily damaged in the eastern Pacific.

When I said there ain't gonna be an Allied field army soon in India, I already had in mind what American forces could be spared/reattached to unrestricted HQs and their transit time to India.

As to your concerns about the KB, they are largely misplaced. It is very rare for any Surface Combat TF, of either side, to deliver any meaningful blows to enemy fleet carriers. On almost every one of those rare occasions where surface and carrier TFs meet, the fleet carriers are usually able to disengage before any shots are fired at all.

Basically, you should encounter no serious resistance in Indian until your reach the Line of Death. At that point you can reassess whether crossing the Line of Death is warranted. Be aware that the Emergency Reinforcements triggered are most beneficial to the Allies, not in the form of the additional LCUs received off map, but in the dumping into the pools of important Allied devices and the early arrival of advanced Spitfires which if handled well, can seriously win control of the airspace to the Allies.

Alfred




Alfred -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/29/2020 10:30:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alamander

I agree with Alfred as well. The allies are crushed. You may as well finish them. I don't see any hope for the allied player avoiding auto-victory on January 1, 1943 in this game if you pursue the path that Alfred suggests. In fact, with the loss of his CVs and China so early, the only hope that the allied player has is if you waste substantial time and deplete several key units at Calcutta.


I am currently in talks with my opponent about the status of the game. After the last turn, he congratulated me on my victories and said that he is thinking of surrendering. I in turn assured him that I did not really care about autovictory and was planning to play on to 1945 even if I get it (I am already past the 4 to 1 victory ratio right now). Given this is my first time playing Japan and my second AE campaign overall, I really want it to continue to see what the later years look like so I hope he takes heart from all the goodies that the Allies get in 1943 and beyond.

I should also be clear that I am still very much in danger in the South Pacific. The KB is right next to many powerful Allied surface warships and extricating it intact could be quite tricky. Not to forget that the Kaga is also heavily damaged.


It is far from a done deal that an auto Japanese victory in 1943 will result. However the conditions are most definitely there for a 1944 Japanese auto victory.

I've always argued that in the event of a Japanese auto victory, the game can continue with the agreed understanding that at the conclusion of the scenario, the final victory level is moved 2 levels in favour of the side which had previously achieved the auto victory. Thus in this instance, should the game continue after a Japanese auto victory and the scenario ends with a notified Allied marginal victory (as per the conditions listed in chapter 17 of the manual), the players would agree that the overall result was a Japanese marginal victory (ie Allied marginal -> draw -> Japanese marginal).

Considering what decisive, marginal and draw victory levels represent historically, a Japanese marginal victory represents the conclusion of a peace treaty where some of the Japanese conquests are permanently retained by Japan.

Alfred




DesertWolf101 -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/29/2020 11:13:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

That decisive victory at Jessore is the equivalent of Saladin's victory at Hattin.  A much more promising exploitation is now open to Japan.

Forget Calcutta.  Instead go to capture all of India.  Just leave enough force in Calcutta to prevent being ejected.

1.  Based on the data disclosed to date, I very much doubt there is much of an Allied field army left in the rest of India.

2.  Most Indian bases have no garrison requirements.  Those that do usually have a garrison requirement of 40 or less.  Other than a very few bases, like Bombay, Madras, Delhi and Karachi, the garrisons will be quite vulnerable to even small Japanese attacks.

3.  A couple of Japanese armour units can quickly capture a large number of Indian bases.  The impact on the capacity of Indian industry to produce local supply to feed the in theatre forces will be devastated.  Commensurately the benefit to Japan will be very significant.

4.  Substantial importation of supply will need to be undertaken by the Allies to both feed and reequip the shattered units from Jessore.  This importation will be very vulnerable to the MKB and some Netties.  Easy VPs to Japan.  When combined with the relatively low Allied device production rates, there ain't gonna be a new Allied field army in India soon.

5.  Faced with a rampaging and unopposed IJA in the countryside, the Allied commander then has to decide whether a retreat from Calcutta is in order.  Consequently going on an India wide conquest operation will probably make the capture of Calcutta much easier as the devastated Allied units move out.

Alfred


Solid and logical advice Alfred. I also very much doubt that the Allies have many forces in the rest of India right now as well. The Australian divisions, the British 18th, and a huge number of Indian forces have already either been sighted or engaged here. Many of these came as reinforcements from the rest of the subcontinent recently when it became apparent to my opponent that my main effort was here. There are also some substantial forces to the east in Assam as well. The biggest question in my mind is when the American divisions/units will be arriving in the wider theater.

I have seven infantry divisions in the Calcutta area right now. In the aftermath of the battle my plan now is to keep three with significant artillery support around Calcutta to bottle up the still very large albeit battered Allied forces there (intel reports 118,000 troops!). One division will head towards Ledo and start clearing Assam. Another will head towards Chittagong and connect with the Japanese forces advancing up from Akyab there (securing my overland communications and potential overland retreat path. And two will follow up the armored drive deeper into India. These can eventually be reinforced as more assets arrive.

My biggest regret, and a mistake linked to my inexperience with the game, is my failure to allocate enough paratrooper units to the Indian adventure. The one unit I did allocate is currently rebuilding at Rangoon from the battering it took with its early commitment at Akyab. This would have greatly facilitated my advance deeper into India, but now I have to mostly advance at the pace of my tank regiments. Any ideas how long I have before the American units start arriving in large numbers?


Approximately 9 weeks from the time your opponent realised that Alpine Dingo was essentially a feint and West Coast units should be sent to India.

The timing is approximate as it depends on several factors but in simplified terms:

3 days to pack into strategic mode
4 days to reach the East Coast
38 days East Coast to Capetown
1 day to load at Capetown
10 days to arrive on map
5 days to cross the Indian Ocean and arrive at an Indian port
1 day to unload

There is your approximate 9 weeks.

Considering that Alpine Dingo appears to have fooled your opponent, he is probably still about 3 weeks out from Capetown. Quite possibly the bulk of the transfers are still 5 weeks from reaching Capetwon.

Of course your opponent could simply have redirected units already en route to, or already arrived, in Australia. Transit from Australia to India will be much quicker, somewhere in the vicinity of about 3 weeks from today but, and it is a very big but, the trip will be extremely dangerous. As a general rule, in AE Allied west - east passage of the Indian Ocean is relatively (emphasis on the word relatively) safe but south - north passage is very dangerous and not to be attempted without forming a very strongly protected convoy. Your opponent does not have the assets to safely transit south to north as his carriers are either sunk or heavily damaged in the eastern Pacific.

When I said there ain't gonna be an Allied field army soon in India, I already had in mind what American forces could be spared/reattached to unrestricted HQs and their transit time to India.

As to your concerns about the KB, they are largely misplaced. It is very rare for any Surface Combat TF, of either side, to deliver any meaningful blows to enemy fleet carriers. On almost every one of those rare occasions where surface and carrier TFs meet, the fleet carriers are usually able to disengage before any shots are fired at all.

Basically, you should encounter no serious resistance in Indian until your reach the Line of Death. At that point you can reassess whether crossing the Line of Death is warranted. Be aware that the Emergency Reinforcements triggered are most beneficial to the Allies, not in the form of the additional LCUs received off map, but in the dumping into the pools of important Allied devices and the early arrival of advanced Spitfires which if handled well, can seriously win control of the airspace to the Allies.

Alfred


Brilliant, thank you Alfred - this is a great estimated timetable for me to work with.

I also doubt much traffic has made it through the north-south route between Australia and India. I have roving raiders in the area and decent search. It's possible, but pretty risky. I even gave notice that the less risky west-east passage is not immune from threat when I intercepted that large supply/fuel convoy a few weeks back.




DesertWolf101 -> RE: Empire of the Sun (8/29/2020 11:17:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alamander

Of course you should play on if you wish, but, if you take into account how much enjoyment you and your opponent will receive from playing on, I think you might be better off accepting surrender. You will, most likely, rout the allies from India by the end of summer. The Indian supply generation, coupled with the quick fall of China, which will reduce dramatically the drain on your supplies, will leave you with a massive stockpile.

With the losses that he has sustained and the lack of a western front, it will very difficult for him to begin his counter offensive until late 1943. You will go through a year or so, I would think, without much action. The game probably will not be competitive again until early 1944.

In my opinion, you would likely be better off starting a new game that will be more competitive from the beginning. There is reason the VP system is setup as it is, and in some cases, it would seem, auto-victory really does reflect an "end of game" situation. Not always, but in this case, it seems to.

I have a chance, certainly no better than 50/50 (and probably worse), to get to auto-victory in my game with Mike, but that is a much different situation. Mike has not lost many assets and is assembling forces within a reasonable distance of important objectives to begin a counter-offensive in earnest soon. He is not going to have to invade India from Aden, for example. In our case, an auto-victory would not signify the end of (or a long hiatus in) the competitive portion game, and we should both continue to derive a good deal of enjoyment from the time we spend playing until the inevitable collapse of Japan.


You raise some good points here Alamander but like Alfred has just noted I don't think it's as one sided as it seems and autovictory in 1943 is still not assured. I feel very confident in China but less so in India. I will take advantage of the Jessore victory to push harder in India but I probably lack the strength go all the way in India before he rushes in the reinforcements from the U.S. and elsewhere. If I don't muck things up, I may have set myself a good start to go for a long campaign here, which is really all I am looking for at this stage - to not be crushed early and survive in strength into 1945 and perhaps dare I say 1946? One can dream! [;)]




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