[1.03b12] Syndicate always returns 3 turns after elimination in crackdown (Full Version)

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Pi2repsilon -> [1.03b12] Syndicate always returns 3 turns after elimination in crackdown (6/26/2020 12:28:28 PM)

1.03 beta 12

Every third turn after cracking down on crime and eliminating the crime syndicate, it arises again in my capital. A capital with high happiness, worker happiness, loyalty... and now a constant army ready to eliminate the syndicate at a cost of 2000 to 3600 troops every time it respawns. Which as noted it does exactly three turns after elimination.

It is not clear to me whether this is a bug or intended behaviour, as there is no documentation on the syndicates at all. I hope it is a bug.

BUT, if it is intended that the Syndicate always returns in short order regardless of what the player invests in crushing it, such that the only rational choice is to choose the co-existence stratagems because crime fighting stratagems is intended as a temporary measure to keep the syndicate under control, not eradicate it, it simply isn't fun and I urge you to either:

a) reconsider and have the syndicate presence be much slower returning to a zone it was brutally murdered in in a major military operation or
b) to remove the crackdown stratagem entirely (as it is a trap currently) only leaving the Crime Raid stratagem, which is honest about being a light control measure.

Attached is a screenshot of my decisions the first 14 turns of play. This game turned into "whack the syndicate", with the syndicate arriving in turn 5 and getting whacked, repeated in turn 8, 11, and 14, after which I dropped that play-through to protect my sanity.

In its current state I must recommend everybody play with Syndicates turned OFF, so I hope something can be done about this before 1.04.



Pi2repsilon -> RE: [1.03b12] Syndicate always returns 3 turns after elimination in crackdown (6/26/2020 1:35:48 PM)

Also, one has to wonder just what supermen the crime syndicate is recruiting that the few crews they start out with at crime level 1 are capable of inflicting thousands of casualties on trained soldiers when I sweep the city of 78000 people with an army of 12000, mixed militia and regulars. I wish I could recruit troops like that.:D



zgrssd -> RE: [1.03b12] Syndicate always returns 3 turns after elimination in crackdown (6/26/2020 1:51:03 PM)

What is your profile? Is enforcement anywhere beyond 20?

From the Manual:
"You have a higher chance to have a Crime Syndicate becoming active during your first 10 rounds of play. But after they can still appear (or re-appear after being destroyed).
The higher your Enforcement Profile the less chance you will have that a Crime Syndicate is created in one of your Zones. From Enforcement score 60 and above it will never happen."



Pi2repsilon -> RE: [1.03b12] Syndicate always returns 3 turns after elimination in crackdown (6/26/2020 2:09:26 PM)

I know what the manual says, and what it doesn't say is, "the crime syndicate consists of the undead, who'll rise on the third night to avenge their fallen".

Enforcement is currently 44 in turn 11-14, was 39 in 8, I forget exactly what it was earlier. I think the lowest I had it was 32 before the game turned into the syndicate version of night of the living dead and I increased enforcement to see if anything would change. (I love testing game mechanics to see where they break.)

I am not saying I have a problem with a crime syndicate being created in the first place. That's fair enough - I'm deliberately playing a commerce profile, so both crime syndicates and corporations are fair game.

And as for the casualties involved in crushing them in a crackdown - they are completely ridiculous on the face of it, but on the other hand for balance reasons playing a stratagem that will outright destroy syndicate resources and progress rather than trying to live with the syndicate MUST have a significant cost apart from the PP cost, and population is the most valuable resource, so that goes in the "silly scale of casualties, but good choice for balancing" category grumbles.

Nor am I saying that a destroyed syndicate should be incapable of reappearing after licking its wounds.

I am saying that the functionality of repeatedly returning from the grave 3 turns after destruction in a well managed city is a) not fun, b) makes the crackdown stratagem a trap, and c) remarkably immersion-breaking. Just who would want to join the syndicate knowing that every three months they are slaughtered by the 8-12k army garrisoning the town?



Vic -> RE: [1.03b12] Syndicate always returns 3 turns after elimination in crackdown (6/26/2020 2:38:37 PM)

Hi,

Its hard to see whats happening without taking a look at a save game. Feel free to send one to vic@vrdesigns.net

I think what is happening is that you deal them a blow... so that they pass under the radar as for a moment while they are so small they cause no crime.

Then at some point they pop above the radar again.

For crime to really end you need the event "Godfather says goodbye" (or something similar).

But i hear you. I'll take a look for the next version (not v1.04, but v1.04-beta1, since v1.04 is already sent to publisher)

I have some ideas how to improve things.

best wishes,
Vic



Pi2repsilon -> RE: [1.03b12] Syndicate always returns 3 turns after elimination in crackdown (6/26/2020 3:26:15 PM)

Roger that. I'll send you a save reproducing the issue later in the day when I return.



zgrssd -> RE: [1.03b12] Syndicate always returns 3 turns after elimination in crackdown (6/26/2020 3:27:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pi2repsilon

Roger that. I'll send you a save reproducing the issue later in the day when I return.

This may require a new Savegame. Event Changes like these are usually marked with "need a new savegame" in the patchnotes.



Vic -> RE: [1.03b12] Syndicate always returns 3 turns after elimination in crackdown (6/28/2020 10:07:26 AM)

Thanks for the saves.

v1.04-beta1 will have fixes on all topics adressed.



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