Air Mining (Full Version)

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Viking67 -> Air Mining (7/4/2020 1:45:12 PM)

How to you conduct air mining missions?



PaxMondo -> RE: Air Mining (7/4/2020 1:46:53 PM)

this has been discussed several times in the past. search the forums ...



geofflambert -> RE: Air Mining (7/4/2020 3:19:20 PM)

Be sure to pack a pick and shovel



Mundy -> RE: Air Mining (7/4/2020 3:23:51 PM)

Does the opponent get notification when you drop mines?



geofflambert -> RE: Air Mining (7/4/2020 5:09:03 PM)

It's a raid. Your CAP may engage. Your flak may engage. You can't miss it.



spence -> RE: Air Mining (7/4/2020 6:13:04 PM)

Your opponent does know that you have dropped mines in the port. AFAIK the raids can't be intercepted if conducted at night...I believe that the game system automatically defaults to flying mining missions at night but maybe not. The B-29 mining campaign in the Japanese Home Islands was conducted at night and suffered very light losses. In the last few months of the war it sank/damaged more ships than submarines did and was very effective.



Nami Koshino -> RE: Air Mining (7/4/2020 6:19:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

In the last few months of the war it sank/damaged more ships than submarines did and was very effective.


I guess that would explain the name it was given.....Operation Starvation.



geofflambert -> RE: Air Mining (7/4/2020 8:45:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Your opponent does know that you have dropped mines in the port. AFAIK the raids can't be intercepted if conducted at night...I believe that the game system automatically defaults to flying mining missions at night but maybe not. The B-29 mining campaign in the Japanese Home Islands was conducted at night and suffered very light losses. In the last few months of the war it sank/damaged more ships than submarines did and was very effective.


Intercepts can happen at night just as with any other kind of bombing. They don't usually do much good though, unless you have good radar.



kbfchicago -> RE: Air Mining (7/4/2020 9:52:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Viking67

How to you conduct air mining missions?


BLUF: Its accessed via "city attack" when flying aircraft capable of dropping mines and aerial mines are available in your resource pool.

As noted there are a number of posts, quite a few discussions around AE vs. its predecessor game, how fields are counted, decay, et.al. One of the reasons you may not be able to drop an aerial mine field is the capability is not active until 1943 (see manual page 152, it is under the "city attack" discussion area for air missions) "Also, air dropped mines are an option here if a city with a port is targeted. Air dropped mine Missions may not be flown before 1943."

For some reason...1944 is also stuck in head (but then again so is the Deep Purple song Hush at the moment) on this so I may be playing a mod that delayed this till 1944 or just off my rocker...so your milage may vary, if playing one of the many mods or beta check the design notes. Default should be '43.

Happy gaming,

Kevin



BBfanboy -> RE: Air Mining (7/5/2020 6:09:12 AM)

IIRC, you cannot launch a mine drop mission at night. One of the things that made me roll my eyes and not bother with that kind of mission.



kbfchicago -> RE: Air Mining (7/5/2020 12:51:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

IIRC, you cannot launch a mine drop mission at night. One of the things that made me roll my eyes and not bother with that kind of mission.


BB, Expect this is just a feature you've not used much. Just double checked with an older game I've got (March '44), PBEM, DBB-C, v1.8.11.26b, and I was definitely able to create a night city attack, designate as mining of the port. In this particular case used B-25s to test.

It is linked to City Attack...so the order of selection would be switch to night, select city attack, select city, and in the bottom left, is the "mine port" selection (in leu of selecting the city target (resources, manpower, et.al.). Although I could alternate between night/day so not required to select night at the beginning.



BBfanboy -> RE: Air Mining (7/5/2020 4:39:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kbfchicago

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

IIRC, you cannot launch a mine drop mission at night. One of the things that made me roll my eyes and not bother with that kind of mission.


BB, Expect this is just a feature you've not used much. Just double checked with an older game I've got (March '44), PBEM, DBB-C, v1.8.11.26b, and I was definitely able to create a night city attack, designate as mining of the port. In this particular case used B-25s to test.

It is linked to City Attack...so the order of selection would be switch to night, select city attack, select city, and in the bottom left, is the "mine port" selection (in leu of selecting the city target (resources, manpower, et.al.). Although I could alternate between night/day so not required to select night at the beginning.

Thanks for the correction! I may have set the city attack first and not seen an option for a night attack, or the night option was added in an update (I played patch 1124 for a long time, only updated last year). That should make the minelaying less risky, but the fact that the IJ player can see it happening and immediately sweep is the biggest drawback IMO.



kbfchicago -> RE: Air Mining (7/5/2020 6:31:09 PM)


quote:

That should make the minelaying less risky, but the fact that the IJ player can see it happening and immediately sweep is the biggest drawback IMO.


True. Although I would think generally historically accurate. Hard to miss, even at night, a flight of twin or four engine planes dropping 500 to 1000lb objects into the bay/channel areas at low altitudes. I think we have some Navy Vets who've worked mines and buoys...perhaps they can comment on drop altitude, I would think well below 10K for both accuracy and not busting up the mine retention system during splash. I have not looked to see what the game reports as the release alt.

Most effective for those bases in range of daylight action that can keep local minesweepers tied up in port or adding to the local shallows as future underwater fish preserves and those bases the IJ has not pushed forward minesweeper support. For IJ players India, Aussie both have signifiant minesweeper capabilities so likely most helpful out in the CenPac islands when the US has not forward deployed support.

I believe what is not possible is air dropping mines on your own bases, since it requires a "city attack" and cities you occupy are not eligible for such an attack. That may have been what you were thinking earlier...

Kevin




RangerJoe -> RE: Air Mining (7/5/2020 7:29:05 PM)

Some of the mines also landed on mud flats where they were apparently easy to find. [8|]

But it is an option to help shut down a port and/or induce enemy minesweepers to the area where they might be subject to a surface task force's guns and/or a naval airstrike.



spence -> RE: Air Mining (7/6/2020 7:03:00 PM)

For those who may be interested in the mining program, check out the following (includes a discussion of earlier efforts before the B-29 campaign too):

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/reports/2006/R1322.pdf

Not specifically mentioned in the text is any Japanese efforts to conduct mining. It would seem that they never really found much of a solution to Allied mining efforts though.



Shellshock -> RE: Air Mining (7/6/2020 8:13:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spence



Not specifically mentioned in the text is any Japanese efforts to conduct mining. It would seem that they never really found much of a solution to Allied mining efforts though.


I found an interesting map in Mark Parillo's book on the Japanese Merchant Marine in WW2. It was certainly in the realm of fantasy, but in mid 1943 Admiral Oikawa of the Grand Escort Fleet proposed a series of anti-submarine minefields stretching from Malaya through the island chains of Sumatra, Java, Celebes, the Philippines, Formosa and then along the Ryukyus chain to Kyushu. He theorized that it would be possible to build a series of radar stations in the island chains and mount heavy patrols with ASW resources released by these minefields.


The plan fell through for a lot of reasons. It was extremely doubtful that Japan had the resources to put this massive barrier into place. In size it would have dwarfed even the famous mine barrage sown across the North Sea in World War One which had required 70,000 mines. At 15,000 miles it would have been five or six times longer than the North Sea field. Japan probably would never have been able to muster the necessary number of minelayers, radars and other equipment needed to implement the scheme.



[image]local://upfiles/37092/3FEBC61300D64D748D476E4E64A642DA.gif[/image]



Bo Rearguard -> RE: Air Mining (7/6/2020 11:40:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shellshock

I found an interesting map in Mark Parillo's book on the Japanese Merchant Marine in WW2. It was certainly in the realm of fantasy, but in mid 1943 Admiral Oikawa of the Grand Escort Fleet proposed a series of anti-submarine minefields stretching from Malaya through the island chains of Sumatra, Java, Celebes, the Philippines, Formosa and then along the Ryukyus chain to Kyushu. He theorized that it would be possible to build a series of radar stations in the island chains and mount heavy patrols with ASW resources released by these minefields.


This sort of reminds me of the Soviet naval bastion concept. An area partially enclosed by friendly shoreline and protected by naval mines. Except without the boomer boats.



RangerJoe -> RE: Air Mining (7/7/2020 2:38:49 AM)

Very interesting reading. Thank you for posting this.

I wonder if there are enough mines in the game to replicate this.



Dili -> RE: Air Mining (7/7/2020 8:20:52 AM)

Note the Yellow Sea mine barrier seems to have been build - it is red in the map -. I wonder how many mines that would imply.



RangerJoe -> RE: Air Mining (7/7/2020 6:49:22 PM)

I thought that the Tsushima strait was mined as well as farther north to isolate the Sea of Japan.

Think of the minefields with land based underwater passive sonar detection backed up by air craft and good ASW ships with highly trained crews. [X(]



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