SHQ not sending food to units (Full Version)

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Covski -> SHQ not sending food to units (7/4/2020 5:10:52 PM)

Hello! I've suddenly run into an issue where my SHQ doesn't send any food whatsoever to any of my units. As far as I can tell, I have plenty of food available and it's not an issue with insufficient logistics - all units everywhere on the map are equally effected, even those right on the same hex as the SHQ. Also, fuel and ammunitions seem to be reaching the units.

At first I thought it was an issue with lack of money, but that didn't allieviate the problem. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what might be going on here? I feel like I might be missing something very obvious.



Tomn -> RE: SHQ not sending food to units (7/4/2020 5:40:48 PM)

Hm. Honestly, it's a bit hard to diagnose the problem without more information. Can you click on your supply tab in your SHQ to show what kind of numbers it's looking at? This should open up a little display showing you what your zones/units/assets are requesting from your SHQ, and what's being delivered. Could you also take a look at the relevant Stats page for food deliveries?



Covski -> RE: SHQ not sending food to units (7/4/2020 5:54:28 PM)

Here's the supply tab on the SHQ - which particular stats page do you want? Of note, this is after I fiddled with the SHQ logistics limitations to put an extra high priority on getting supplies to units, so the logistics network being too busy with shipping stuff between the zones shouldn't be an issue unless I'm misunderstanding something?

Weirdly, the issue came up quite suddenly between one turn and another, which makes me think it could very well be some kind of bug, unless I messed something up badly without realising it.



Tomn -> RE: SHQ not sending food to units (7/4/2020 6:15:54 PM)

That DOES seem a bit odd - I am wondering a bit, though. Given total supply needs there, it DOES seem like the amount of food you have might not be entirely balanced for your forces. Still, let's dive further. Take a look at your Logistical Statistics, the Unit Food Supply line. That should give you a look at how much food your troops are demanding and how much they're getting. You might also want to mouse over the food indicator to the left to get a breakdown on where your food is actually going and how much you're actually getting.



Covski -> RE: SHQ not sending food to units (7/4/2020 6:31:07 PM)

Here you go! As you can see, I'm making a need gain of food and have a decent chunk sitting in the SHQ, but it doesn't seem to want to send any out for whatever reason. I also checked, and all units with decent supply lines are getting all the fuel and ammunition they want. Food is getting to the soldiers/colonists as well as the zones that need it, it's just the units that are getting nothing at all.



Falke -> RE: SHQ not sending food to units (7/4/2020 6:56:56 PM)

You do not have enough food. Only the start of turn can be sent out. You had c1300 at start of turn that all got sent to zones, leaving nothing available for the Units. The 2K received can only get sent out next turn



zgrssd -> RE: SHQ not sending food to units (7/4/2020 7:20:00 PM)

For ideal debugging, we would need the Initial Logistics and Bottleneck Mapmodes.



Covski -> RE: SHQ not sending food to units (7/4/2020 7:32:15 PM)

I guess lack of food might be it - I'll run a test with buying as much food as I can and checking if that solves it. It DOES seem a bit counterintuitive to me that the indicator shows a positive food income 5+ turns in a row, if I'm actually running so low that literally all my troops are starving, but if that's the case at least it's just a ui/ux quirk and not an actual bug! Does the system alway prioritise sending food to zones before it attempts to send any to the units?

I'll give it a try and come back with the maps if it doesn't solve the issue. Thanks for all your help and input! [:)]



Tomn -> RE: SHQ not sending food to units (7/4/2020 7:42:44 PM)

Well, it's not just zones - that pool of recruits is absolutely enormous, and they're drawing down food as well. I agree that the UI decision of "consumption happens before production" leads to weird and unintuitive results, but I think there's a reason - consumption actually affects production, since if your assets don't get the resources they need they don't produce as much either. It could be possible for production to come before consumption and have the previous turn's consumption affect this turn's production, but that leads to its own set of unintuitive weirdness. I don't think it's ideal either way, though, and some thought on how to display the information in a more obvious, helpful, and intuitive manner would be great.

Also aside, holy crap, dude, how many friggin' militiamen and unattached independent battalions do you have? Is this the result of the, uh, was it Enforcement or Fist profiles? I mean, damn, I usually have about a dozen militia units or so by this point who're all slowly dying out because my regular army has gotten large enough to completely extinguish militancy. You...you do have OHQs and are attaching independent battalions to them, right?



Falke -> RE: SHQ not sending food to units (7/4/2020 7:45:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Covski

Does the system alway prioritise sending food to zones before it attempts to send any to the units?



It is not a matter of food. The sequence is always (for everything)

Send to Zone
Send to Unit
Send Zone to SHQ
Replacements to Unit



Covski -> RE: SHQ not sending food to units (7/4/2020 8:06:14 PM)

Okay, it looks like the issue was indeed as simple as just an actual lack of food, thanks for your help! [:)] I still can't help but feel that this is a pretty serious issue with how information in presented to the player - intuitively, seeing at a glance that the amount of food stored in the SHQ is positive or at least stable seems like it should indicate that the food supply is adequate.

As for how to communicate this information better, I'm not sure. Maybe a warning along the lines of "There was insufficent food at the end of last turn to satisfy the demand of your zones/units" when mousing over the food counter on the left would be good?

Regarding the amount of recruits, that's more on me for not really having a feeling yet for how much recruiting/soldier pool is reasonable. Maybe the ability to set a cap for how much recruits you can have in the pool would be a good thing?

The militia situation is due to minors I had a protection treaty joining me with the gazillion militia units they are keeping around in the late game. I just found how to disband units by clicking around, so thanks for the inspiration! I also just learned that you can attach independent units to OHQs, so thanks for that too :D This is only my second game, so it's very obvious I'm still learning :D



Falke -> RE: SHQ not sending food to units (7/4/2020 8:14:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Covski
Regarding the amount of recruits, that's more on me for not really having a feeling yet for how much recruiting/soldier pool is reasonable.


If you press colonise in the SHQ zone, you can return the recruits to general population.



Covski -> RE: SHQ not sending food to units (7/4/2020 8:19:59 PM)

Yeah, that I know about [:)] Do you guys have any rule of thumb of how large a manpower pool is reasonable to keep around? I suppose 24k is enough to raise a full motorised infantry division, which is the largest type of formation you'd ever be able to raise at one time could be a workable maximum limit?
'
Edit: Whoops, looked at just independant formations! Raising a normal infantry army is still 62k. Would you recommend raising it at half strength and letting it reinforce, or is it better to raise independant units and adding them to and OHQ afterwards?



Tomn -> RE: SHQ not sending food to units (7/4/2020 8:32:13 PM)

Well, I'd recommend raising brigades unless you're playing on massive map sizes, honestly. Depends somewhat on what your enemies are fielding, but brigades will probably do the job, with divisions and armies only necessary if the enemy is also fielding divisions and so on. And how many recruits you want depends, really - that's a pretty large pool of unused recruits, but if you need to raise a lot of brigades in a hurry that can melt away pretty quickly, especially if you raised motorized or mechanized brigades. Depends also on how many troops you already have out anyhow - that's a lot of recruits if you already have a sizeable army (say, half a dozen to a dozen brigades), but if you have less than that, those recruits could form the nucleus of your regular army.

Edit: It's also worth noting that OHQs have a maximum limit of two independent battalions per formation, usually.



zgrssd -> RE: SHQ not sending food to units (7/4/2020 8:37:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Covski

Okay, it looks like the issue was indeed as simple as just an actual lack of food, thanks for your help! [:)] I still can't help but feel that this is a pretty serious issue with how information in presented to the player - intuitively, seeing at a glance that the amount of food stored in the SHQ is positive or at least stable seems like it should indicate that the food supply is adequate.

As for how to communicate this information better, I'm not sure. Maybe a warning along the lines of "There was insufficent food at the end of last turn to satisfy the demand of your zones/units" when mousing over the food counter on the left would be good?

Regarding the amount of recruits, that's more on me for not really having a feeling yet for how much recruiting/soldier pool is reasonable. Maybe the ability to set a cap for how much recruits you can have in the pool would be a good thing?

The militia situation is due to minors I had a protection treaty joining me with the gazillion militia units they are keeping around in the late game. I just found how to disband units by clicking around, so thanks for the inspiration! I also just learned that you can attach independent units to OHQs, so thanks for that too :D This is only my second game, so it's very obvious I'm still learning :D

1. Yes, information is lacking in the UI. Partriculary on the SHQ.
2. There is no real figure for how many recruits is enough.
3. Militia can be savely kept around. You get reimbursed for the Food, Ammo and Fuel/Energy Consumption. You only need to supply the Logistics
(Exception: Prior to 1.04beta1, the food part was not working: "-Fixed a bug where Food delivered by Militia to Zone inventory was reported as given, but where it actually was not being added")



Covski -> RE: SHQ not sending food to units (7/4/2020 10:02:10 PM)

Thank you again for all the advice! Ended up finally winning the game, lots of lessons learned for the next one :D



zgrssd -> RE: SHQ not sending food to units (7/4/2020 10:51:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Covski

Thank you again for all the advice! Ended up finally winning the game, lots of lessons learned for the next one :D

Few people learned how to win in Shadow Empires, without starving their troops at least once.



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