RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire

RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (Full Version)

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JohnDillworth -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/15/2020 1:03:17 PM)
also read this quote: "I was on LHD-7 which is the sister ship, we only had suppression systems in critical or high risk spaces. The rest of the ship relies on the on board damage control teams which where not on board. They only had a skeleton crew. Call it a calamity of worst case scenarios. The Navy will make changes based on this, we always have, example, USS Forrestal being a key point in Naval fire fighting history."

Anachro -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/15/2020 2:02:51 PM)
It just seems a bit naive if in the past the navy has recognized the increased risk of damage/fire while in port for refit/repair, a damage control team should always be on hand. Anyways, yes, this is a write-off; the slow, unstoppable progress of the fire and grinding firefight, as well as the images seen of the burnt out, hollowed ship, all makes this feel hauntingly similar to the firefighting efforts of Kido Butai at Midway described in Shattered Sword. The ships wont sink, but will be so damaged and warped on the interior as to be hardly worth repairing.

JohnDillworth -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/15/2020 2:17:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anachro It just seems a bit naive if in the past the navy has recognized the increased risk of damage/fire while in port for refit/repair, a damage control team should always be on hand. Anyways, yes, this is a write-off; the slow, unstoppable progress of the fire and grinding firefight, as well as the images seen of the burnt out, hollowed ship, all makes this feel hauntingly similar to the firefighting efforts of Kido Butai at Midway described in Shattered Sword. The ships wont sink, but will be so damaged and warped on the interior as to be hardly worth repairing. Even if they had a civilian construction team on board they would have a fire watch 24x7. Pure speculation but what might happened is something exploded (could be a gas cylinder, improperly stored solvent, a lithium battery, ect ect. lots of flammable things on ships and construction sites) and the crew on board did not have any procedures to call for outside assistance with the fire, they never got ahead of the fire and by the time they got help it was too late and the help did not really know how to fight fires on warships. A complex system failure for sure and absolutely a learning experience for the entire Navy. Someone way up the command chain is going to be put in charge of investigating this and they will do an outstanding job. It will be interesting reading a couple of years from now.

BBfanboy -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/15/2020 2:56:16 PM)
Remember how we all marveled at the ineptitude of Russian firefighting efforts when their carrier caught fire a few months ago? The shoe is on the other foot now. I guess the lesson is that fire on ships is so dangerous that you better have trained firefighting people standing by at all times. There are probably numerous incidents where fires are quickly doused and we never hear about them, so people get complacent about the chances of fires starting.

LargeSlowTarget -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/15/2020 3:38:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth Found this photo. I saw a high-res version of this yesterday but it quickly got wiped from the internet. Probably classified but here is a thumbnail form my browser cache [image]local://upfiles/31520/C523E182E5A045F0AC6EB4D1ED124CA1.jpg[/image] I have seen it on https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/14/us/bonhomme-richard-fire-tuesday/index.html [image]local://upfiles/1313/59184BD62D254AB49A96966DF3465BA1.jpg[/image]

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/15/2020 6:06:59 PM)
It is a good thing that there was no ammunition on board. The fuel is bad enough. All sailors are trained in firefighting. I wonder if the vehicles were loaded. If the Marine vehicles were loaded and they have aluminium armour, that burns very hot.

JohnDillworth -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/15/2020 7:07:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget quote: ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth Found this photo. I saw a high-res version of this yesterday but it quickly got wiped from the internet. Probably classified but here is a thumbnail form my browser cache [image]local://upfiles/31520/C523E182E5A045F0AC6EB4D1ED124CA1.jpg[/image] I have seen it on https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/14/us/bonhomme-richard-fire-tuesday/index.html [image]local://upfiles/1313/59184BD62D254AB49A96966DF3465BA1.jpg[/image] Thanks. Yeah, that's not good. Looks like that deck melted. Can't tell how many decks down that goes but I do believe this ship is only good for parts, and not many of those

JohnDillworth -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/15/2020 7:10:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe It is a good thing that there was no ammunition on board. The fuel is bad enough. All sailors are trained in firefighting. I wonder if the vehicles were loaded. If the Marine vehicles were loaded and they have aluminium armour, that burns very hot. By all accounts there were not many crew aboard. Not sure if they left a full fire-fighting crew aboard. If they did not I suspect that will be the last time that happens. The Navy was honest and tough on itself in examining the ship collisions a few years ago. I'd expect nothing less this time

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/15/2020 7:22:25 PM)
I read where there were 160 sailors on board the ship. All are trained to fight fires but I do not know to what extent their training goes to.

fcooke -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/16/2020 1:43:21 AM)
She is toast. Cheaper to build a new one. Or just let the fleet have one fewer. Still surprised harbor craft could not come out and cover her in water.

BBfanboy -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/16/2020 5:20:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fcooke She is toast. Cheaper to build a new one. Or just let the fleet have one fewer. Still surprised harbor craft could not come out and cover her in water. There was a fire boat spraying water into the hangar deck, but that doesn't help with fires below that level. In an enclosed hold I guess it doesn't take much fuel to build to the 1000�F point, anything flammable touching the other side of the compartment bulkhead/deck/deck head would also ignite. Every time firefighters enter an enclosed furnace like that the rush of air coming in can touch off the flashover fire of superheated gasses that just need oxygen to ignite fiercely. Nasty work to fight those.

Shellshock -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/16/2020 6:19:48 AM)
I've been reading reports that the island and mast of the Bonhomme Richard were made of aluminum. Which surprise me. Seems like if you have an aluminum super structure over a steel hull, you have an aluminum smelter waiting to happen. That certainly seems to have been the fate of the missile frigate USS Belknap after her collision with the carrier John F Kennedy in 1975 in the Mediterranean where the entire "mack" melted down. [img]https://bangaricontentgallerydotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/belknap-damaged-2014-02-24_1131.png[/img] Shortly after this tragedy, the Navy announced that it would, henceforth, have future ships built from steel, not aluminum. Although officials did not directly link the decision to the collision, the timing seems to indicate that the accident was a factor in the change. Remarkably, the Belknap was taken to the Philadelphia Naval Yard, and over the next four years it was completely refurbished and restored. By 1986, it was a flagship, and one positive footnote in its history is that it served as a base for George H. W. Bush when he attended the Malta Summit in 1989.

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/16/2020 6:37:05 AM)
A British ship was hit by a missile in the South Atlantic and the fire could not be put out becausethe superstructure was aluminium.

Q-Ball -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/16/2020 2:23:03 PM)
According to the Wall St. Journal, Naval Officials fear she is a total loss. They seemed pretty confident of that in the article.

Yaab -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/16/2020 3:04:32 PM)
I hope am I not being too crude, but I cannot escape an impression that the ships's name somehow changed to Bonfire Richard.

JohnDillworth -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/16/2020 3:30:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yaab I hope am I not being too crude, but I cannot escape an impression that the ships's name somehow changed to Bonfire Richard. Made me spit my tea out

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/16/2020 3:47:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth quote: ORIGINAL: Yaab I hope am I not being too crude, but I cannot escape an impression that the ships's name somehow changed to Bonfire Richard. Made me spit my teeth out There, I edited that for you!

fcooke -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/16/2020 4:24:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RangerJoe A British ship was hit by a missile in the South Atlantic and the fire could not be put out becausethe superstructure was aluminium. I think that was the HMS Sheffield. IIRC the exocet didn't even explode but ruptured water lines that made fighting the aluminum fires difficult, with the leftover fuel from the missile causing the fires.

Jaroen -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/16/2020 7:59:31 PM)
This article offers some clarification on port repair trouble: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/34832/veteran-sailor-on-why-navy-ships-can-be-most-vulnerable-in-port-and-how-to-change-that Have a good read

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/16/2020 8:25:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jaroen This article offers some clarification on port repair trouble: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/34832/veteran-sailor-on-why-navy-ships-can-be-most-vulnerable-in-port-and-how-to-change-that Have a good read That is very good. Thank you.

Anachro -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/16/2020 9:45:27 PM)
According to USNI News, the fire is now extinguished: LINK

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/16/2020 10:46:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anachro According to USNI News, the fire is now extinguished: LINK Thank you for posting that.

fcooke -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/17/2020 11:44:12 AM)
Is there a next class of assault carriers in the pipe? If so, likely a better investment than repairing the BHR.

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/17/2020 12:03:44 PM)
If not, there probably should be. It looks like the hull became very warm and that can weaken the steel.

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/17/2020 1:18:49 PM)
Meet the USS Tripoli: The Navy's Newest Amphibious Assault Ship quote: he U.S. Navy has commissioned its second new America-class Amphibious Assault Ship, a move intended to help America win in a modern threat environment. Today, the Navy is incorporating longer-range air attack, ocean drones, advanced sensors and new weapons. These are all figuring more prominently in the Navy�s developing amphibious warfare tactics and strategies. The USS Tripoli, called LHA 7, is like its predecessor the USS America designed to optimize new aviation assets such as the F-35B and upgraded Osprey helicopters. Currently, a third America-class amphibious assault ship, the LHA 8, is being built and it also incorporates the return of a more traditional well-deck for ship-to-shore ocean amphibious assaults. However, the first two ships of the America-class have been deliberately designed to maximize air attack, air supremacy and drone coordination as part of a specific response to newer, long-range weapons and sensors threats posed by adversaries. . . . https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/meet-uss-tripoli-navys-newest-amphibious-assault-ship-164889

The Gnome -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/22/2020 6:40:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fcooke The USN has not had a good run recently. Collisions and now this. I am beginning to wonder about the training standards. Yeah from the outside looking in this doesn't instill very much confidence. Standards definitely seem to be slipping.

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/22/2020 6:52:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: The Gnome quote: ORIGINAL: fcooke The USN has not had a good run recently. Collisions and now this. I am beginning to wonder about the training standards. Yeah from the outside looking in this doesn't instill very much confidence. Standards definitely seem to be slipping. Get back to a larger Navy so operations aren't as intensive for an individual ship and there can be more training. Bring back the draft! Beer, that is! [sm=00000436.gif]

The Gnome -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/22/2020 6:54:03 PM)
Back the Brew!

fcooke -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/23/2020 12:35:49 AM)
The good beer from the Brew City, not some of the other stuff. Apologies in advance to folks who think some of that stuff is real beer.

RangerJoe -> RE: OT: Bonhomme Richard Fire (7/23/2020 12:56:55 AM)
I like the Bavarian Bier Laws. [sm=00000436.gif]

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