Well they weren't potatoes, but ammunition just the same.

Well they weren't potatoes, but ammunition just the same. (Full Version)

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Thrashman -> Well they weren't potatoes, but ammunition just the same. (8/2/2003 12:55:36 AM)
JUNE 6, 1944 MEMORANDUM TO THE PRESS The following was given to the press by Admiral Royal E. Ingersoll, USN, Commander in Chief, Atlantic Fleet, at the press conference of Secre_tary of the Navy James Forrestal today: "Recently on a brilliant moonlight night one of our destroyer escorts sighted a submarine, fully surfaced, silhouetted against the moon. The de_stroyer escort immediately rang up full speed and headed for the submarine, opening fire with all her guns. The submarine elected to fight it out and opened fire with her deck guns and machine guns, tracers passing high over the bridge of the destroyer escort. The submarine maneuvered at high speed and fired a torpedo. The destroyer escort closed the range rapidly, following the sub's evasive maneuvers and burying the sub under a withering fire at point blank range, machine guns and three inch forecastle guns. The range finally closed until the submarine was only 20 yards away. All fire on the submarine having ceased at this point the destroyer escort rode up on the forecastle of the submarine where she stuck. Men began swarming out of the submarine and up onto the destroyer escort's forecastle. The destroyer escort opened up on them with machine guns, tommy guns and rifle fire. Ammunition expended at this time included several general mess [U]coffee cups[/U] which happened to be at the gun stations. Two of the enemy were hit on the head with these. Empty cartridge cases also proved effective for re_pelling the boarders. During this heated encounter the destroyer escort suffered her only casualty of the engagement, when a husky seaman bruised his fist knocking one of the enemy over the side. "At this stage of the battle the boatswain's mate in charge forward with a 45 Colt revolver and a Chief Firecontrolman with a tommy gun accounted for a number of those attempting to board. The destroyer escort then de_cided to back off to stop any more enemy trying to board her. Again the running battle was resumed, hits falling like rain on the sub's topside. Even shallow depth charges were used against the submarine. The destroyer es_cort rammed a second time and then the submarine rolled slowly over.

Admiral DadMan -> Re: Well they weren't potatoes, but ammunition just the same. (8/2/2003 3:05:59 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Thrashman [B]JUNE 6, 1944 .... The destroyer escort rammed a second time and then the submarine rolled slowly over. [/B][/QUOTE]I remember this. It was USS Borie (DD-215) From [I]The Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships (DANFS Online):[/I] [URL=http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/destroy/dd215txt.htm]USS Borie (DD-215)[/URL]

Thrashman -> (8/2/2003 3:20:41 AM)
When I read about things like this, I start to think about America's youth today. Not all but most of these young worthless punks I see today would load their skivies if put into some of the situations of combat during WW2. I think we would have lost if all we had to send were these soft winey brats of today! Things sure have changed.

bilbow -> (8/2/2003 6:11:04 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Thrashman [B]When I read about things like this, I start to think about America's youth today. Not all but most of these young worthless punks I see today would load their skivies if put into some of the situations of combat during WW2. I think we would have lost if all we had to send were these soft winey brats of today! Things sure have changed. [/B][/QUOTE] No they haven't. Each generation in the country's history has faced up to the challenges of the times- for my dad's it was WWII, my generation stepped up to Vietnam, and my son's has today's challenges. Winey brats? No way. BTW my son starts basic training next month. He volunteered.

Splinterhead -> (8/2/2003 6:13:11 AM)
The Germans and Japanese of today are also somewhat different in their values and viewpoints than their WW2 counterparts.

Cap Mandrake -> (8/2/2003 9:04:20 AM)
Wow...now THAT is a story you could tell your grandkids.

Drex -> (8/2/2003 11:59:15 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bilbow [B]No they haven't. Each generation in the country's history has faced up to the challenges of the times- for my dad's it was WWII, my generation stepped up to Vietnam, and my son's has today's challenges. Winey brats? No way. BTW my son starts basic training next month. He volunteered. [/B][/QUOTE] I think of our boys in Iraq and i can only think of the long line of heroes our coutry has produced from war to war. Each generation has stepped up to the plate and delivered. each generation has its own heroes.

Mike_B20 -> (8/2/2003 3:07:13 PM)
Every generation has plenty of untapped courage and resolve. It just takes the right situation to bring it out. The yanks also have a rich history of the kind illustrated above to draw on by way of example. Strangely, the Romans were saying their youth lacked courage and were soft about the time Hannibal was devastating the Roman countryside and we all know how that war ended.

LargeSlowTarget -> Sorry, Adm DadMan, but... (8/4/2003 5:44:12 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Admiral DadMan [B]I remember this. It was USS Borie (DD-215) From [I]The Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships (DANFS Online):[/I] [URL=http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/destroy/dd215txt.htm]USS Borie (DD-215)[/URL] [/B][/QUOTE] ... are you sure? According to the URL you've provided, DD-215 Borie was a 'four stacker' D[B]D[/B] of WWI vintage. Adm. Ingersoll maintains the ship in question was a D[B]E[/B]. The other Borie of WW2 was a Sumner class DD comissioned in September 44, so can't be her either. Moreover, the press memorandom of June 6, 1944 says the action took place 'recently' - but Borie was sunk November 1, 1943. Furthermore, the report states that the DE opened fire with 3-inch guns - Borie was armed with 4-inchers. Although DD-215 in fact did have an encounter with a German sub, she was never boarded by the Germans. Instead Borie rammed the surfaced sub and both vessels became locked for ten minutes. During this time, the submariners manning the deck gun and flak weapons were mowed down by Borie's crew with automatic weapons and small arms, including tommy guns, pistols, shotguns and rifles. One US sailor killed a German by throwing a knife, and another German was knocked overboard by an empty 4-inch shell case thrown at him by a Borie sailor. Both ships were heavily damaged in the collision and both sank subsequently. Source is Morison. I'll check the 1944 chapters for the DE story. Perhaps Ingersoll's report has been twisted on purpose to boost morale at that crucial date. Btw - Thrashman, what's your source for this memo? EDIT: I think there is a movie based on the story, starring Curd Jürgens and Robert Mitchum IIRC. In this movie the US ship is a DE.

RevRick -> The movie is "The Enemy Below" (8/4/2003 8:52:56 AM)
and it is one of the better movies of the genre - gritty and realistic - even though the ending is somewhat improbable.

Thrashman -> Re: Sorry, Adm DadMan, but... (8/4/2003 8:00:08 PM)
[QUOTE] Btw - Thrashman, what's your source for this memo? [/QUOTE] http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/comms/1944-06.html This site lists, I believe, all Navy Dept. communiques during the war. There is some pretty interesting stuff. And on the comment I made about our youth today, note I said not all...... And remember, back then, the majority of troops were volunteers. I don't see our youth today volunteering in those kind of numbers. I guess I am just tired of constantly being reminded on the news about kids today and exactly what they take for granted. It's sad.

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