Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (Full Version)

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spinecruncher -> Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/16/2020 9:14:05 PM)

Why are axis airdrops not including fuel when that is what the Pz corps require?

The Furher is literally eating carpet over this!



Telemecus -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/16/2020 9:25:02 PM)

Airdrops can be either fuel or supply. If you leave the AI to do it, it will chose and maybe not what you want. If you want to be sure of dropping fuel do the mission yourself manually and be sure to toggle the fuel option for delivery.



spinecruncher -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/16/2020 11:14:46 PM)

do you know where it is explained how to drop just fuel? looking at manual page 170 et al, it does not show how it's done. Thank you!



hei1 -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/17/2020 4:38:38 AM)

Press SHIFT button, while selecting the target. Like for all manually set air missions. The fuel/supply choice comes up in the lower right corner.



Denniss -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/17/2020 8:45:05 AM)

You need transport a/c for this job, bombers don't work. Fuel deliveries may be blocked in 1941 though.



Disgruntled Veteran -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/17/2020 2:29:47 PM)

They work. He just needs to manually select his air groups then select fuel.



CapAndGown -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/17/2020 10:00:08 PM)

I am unclear on the limitations of fuel resupply. I moved all my JU52s to AGC so they could refuel the panzers, but more often than not I get a message about transports being out of range. I tried deciphering the manual about range limitations for airdrops, but didn't get very far. Something about dividing by the year you were born, multiplying by Pi, dividing by the last number of your zip code and so on. Could someone just tell me how far a JU52 can transport fuel, and other limitations, such as the supply situation of the airbase they are located at, and so forth.



thedoctorking -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/17/2020 10:18:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

I am unclear on the limitations of fuel resupply. I moved all my JU52s to AGC so they could refuel the panzers, but more often than not I get a message about transports being out of range. I tried deciphering the manual about range limitations for airdrops, but didn't get very far. Something about dividing by the year you were born, multiplying by Pi, dividing by the last number of your zip code and so on. Could someone just tell me how far a JU52 can transport fuel, and other limitations, such as the supply situation of the airbase they are located at, and so forth.

There is a glitch in 12.04 that makes this more difficult. Use the technique in the updated manual to be able to select usable air units.

I believe also that you are drawing supply from the supply source of the air unit. This might not be the source of the air base. But in the conditions of rapid advance in 1941, your air unit might not have much supply to draw on even if you are far in the rear.

Level bombers use four times the miles that they would normally use for an air transport mission. I do not believe that applies to transport planes, though.

As already stated, only transport type planes can carry fuel. Also, your supply drops are much more efficient if they are taking place in or adjacent to a hex with a friendly air field if that hex was friendly-controlled at the beginning of the turn.

Air transport of supplies is a chancy proposition. I have sometimes been very frustrated and clearly there are things I don't understand about how this might work.



Telemecus -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/17/2020 10:23:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown
I am unclear on the limitations of fuel resupply. I moved all my JU52s to AGC so they could refuel the panzers, but more often than not I get a message about transports being out of range.

Typically you get this message when you do more than two airdrops on one hex. Two is the limit.

Also the transports have to be on an airbase close to rails or they will not be allowed to fly a transport mission.



eskuche -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/17/2020 10:56:41 PM)

Supply can be delivered by either 0% moved level bombers or any % transport planes.
Fuel can be delivered by any% transport gruppen only.

For either, the staging airbase (or initiating if no staging) must be within 5 MP of railhead.



CapAndGown -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/17/2020 11:38:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: eskuche
For either, the staging airbase (or initiating if no staging) must be within 5 MP of railhead.


Aha! Thanks! [&o]



Chris21wen -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/18/2020 3:34:53 PM)

This is one of my pet hates with the game.

The problem with airdropping supply/fuel is I find it woefully inconsistent in how you successfully acheive it. This turned out to be because there's a rule that does not appear in the manual or at least I can't find it.

I carried out tests again trying to work out why my fightrs would sometimes not be available to escort. In the test nothing had moved, no supply problems, weather clear and was carried out under latest beta patch.



Fighter base is circled red
Staging base blue
Transport base yellow
Fliegerkorps orange
Bomber base two hex left of HQ
Railhead through Kiev to FBD so all within 5MP and 5 hexes if that matters.

LC Staging base
F9
Shift button or key
RC target (Now with red paradrop symbol)
No fighters. Transports selected were RG37 and from a different luftflotte.

F9
LC Staging base
Shift button or key
RC target (Now with red paradrop symbol)
Got TR and fighters from same luftflotte, TR RG13 fighter RG7 and RG10. Note: Distance from the staging base is 13MP and 10 hexes to the TR airbase and 4MP and 4 Hexes to the visible fighter base.

Selecting the staging base first does not work. Selecting F9 first does, and appears to works 100% of the time. The updated manual say this on page 151. There is a caveat however, there's a range problem. See below.



[image]local://upfiles/5388/86215CED82B84DB6ABB78D1A97FA3CC6.jpg[/image]



Chris21wen -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/18/2020 3:36:29 PM)

Range test
I thought the max range a fighter group can be used is twice it's range. If the fighters has a range of 15 then that's 30 hexes, 15 to the staging base, and a further 15 to target. This is not the case.

In this test the staging base started 13 hexes away from target with the fighter base further back, 9 away so both fighter group and base are within 15 hex range, total being 22 hexes. All bases on a supplied rail, target isn't, being off rail range 8 hexes. As you can see fighter escorts were available.

Moving the target one hex further to 14 resulted in no fighters?

Reloaded but this time moved the staging base closer to target. All OK until the range to fightrt group >15 then no fighters. Range to target now 6, 22 total still.

Moved it back to 15 hexes with range to target now 7, total 22 thus making fighters available.

Moved the target 1 hex so total became 23. No fighters

It seems there are two range criteria for excorts.

Max range between figher group and staging base or between staging base and target cannot be greater than the max range of the aircraft. This makes sense with the manual, if not spelling it out, does not say otherwise.

There's also a max mission range for the total distance between fighter group and target as flown via the staging base. It appears to be the one and half times the range rounded down. In this instance 15+7=22. This is not in the mnaual that I can find and does seem to vary

I did try this with a fighter with max range 10 giving max mission range of 15 max. Rules still held but set to 20 I'd wierd inconstistant results based around 18 hexes? Don't ask me, I don't know, but it's safe to say they do roughly follow the one and a half rule.


[image]local://upfiles/5388/A75DA66F4E8C4CC694987AB6F4CA1D76.jpg[/image]



Chris21wen -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/18/2020 3:39:25 PM)

How to and details are located here in the manual but do need tweaking.

5.3.9. Air transport Mode (F9) and
16.3.5 Air Transport Missions


The nitty gritty on how it works is as follows:

Air tranport groups must be within 5MP of railhead to airdrop.
Air tranport groups must also be within 20MP of staging base and the staging base. I don't know what the distance is between Staging base and target. But this is not in the manual.
Only air transports can drop both fuel amd supply
Bombers can only drop supply and it MUST be the first thing they do in the turn. (I.e. no air miles).

Escorts for transports
Max range between figher group and staging base or between staging base and target cannot be greater than the max range of the aircraft. This makes sense with the manual agreeing, if not spelling it out.

There's also a max mission range for the total distance between fighter group and target as flown via the staging base. It appears to be about one and half times the max group range rounded down. In this instance 15+7=22, roughly.


Anybody got any thoughts?



Telemecus -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/18/2020 3:39:35 PM)

It is more than roughly it is exactly! The rule is one and a half with any fractions rounded down always.

Air transfers on the other hand are 3 times range

Transport missions as they are not combat missions have a different multiplier.



Chris21wen -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/19/2020 7:14:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

It is more than roughly it is exactly! The rule is one and a half with any fractions rounded down always.

Air transfers on the other hand are 3 times range

Transport missions as they are not combat missions have a different multiplier.


Is it in the manual?



Telemecus -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/19/2020 11:41:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

It is more than roughly it is exactly! The rule is one and a half with any fractions rounded down always.

Air transfers on the other hand are 3 times range

Transport missions as they are not combat missions have a different multiplier.


Is it in the manual?


Someone might argue that is implicit in the paragraph about multipliers for miles flown/hex - but if it is it has defeated my understanding. I may have sent it to you as a suggestion for the updated manual but otherwise it is not explicit in the old manual.



Chris21wen -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/20/2020 4:55:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

It is more than roughly it is exactly! The rule is one and a half with any fractions rounded down always.

Air transfers on the other hand are 3 times range

Transport missions as they are not combat missions have a different multiplier.


Is it in the manual?


Someone might argue that is implicit in the paragraph about multipliers for miles flown/hex - but if it is it has defeated my understanding. I may have sent it to you as a suggestion for the updated manual but otherwise it is not explicit in the old manual.



Knowing it certainly helps keep the panzers fueled in 1941. Before I was baffled.



heliodorus04 -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/26/2020 3:07:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen

How to and details are located here in the manual but do need tweaking.

5.3.9. Air transport Mode (F9) and
16.3.5 Air Transport Missions


The nitty gritty on how it works is as follows:

Air tranport groups must be within 5MP of railhead to airdrop.
Air tranport groups must also be within 20MP of staging base and the staging base. I don't know what the distance is between Staging base and target. But this is not in the manual.
Only air transports can drop both fuel amd supply
Bombers can only drop supply and it MUST be the first thing they do in the turn. (I.e. no air miles).

Escorts for transports
Max range between figher group and staging base or between staging base and target cannot be greater than the max range of the aircraft. This makes sense with the manual agreeing, if not spelling it out.

There's also a max mission range for the total distance between fighter group and target as flown via the staging base. It appears to be about one and half times the max group range rounded down. In this instance 15+7=22, roughly.


Anybody got any thoughts?


Why are my JU52s dropping roughly 30% of the possible fuel? If I have 300 ton capacity, I only drop 100 tons...
I haven't played in a while, but in my last edition, you needed to place an Airbase (any kind) in or adjacent to the targeted drop hex, but at least you'd get most of your fuel. Now I can't seem to make any impact on the amount of fuel successfully dropped by Ju52s, and that rather upsets me.



eskuche -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/26/2020 3:15:07 PM)

This effect happens only starting in 1942 and with airbases in clear or light woods. I believe the hex also needs to start the turn as a friendly hex though I am not 100% on that part.



Telemecus -> RE: Is there some way to airdrop fuel? (7/26/2020 3:28:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: eskuche
I believe the hex also needs to start the turn as a friendly hex though I am not 100% on that part.

Correct



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