Type 3 IJN mine (Full Version)

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s2tanker -> Type 3 IJN mine (7/21/2020 5:44:04 PM)

Has anyone been able to deploy these? I've only seen surface ships laying the Type 4 and Type 93. I don't see upgrades with that mine type as well.



rustysi -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (7/21/2020 6:08:07 PM)

That's an airborne mine. Deployed IIRC only by capable JNB (two engine types). Can only be deployed at enemy bases by using the mine option of the city attack, and a message displays that they were dropped to everyone. Don't ask me why.



s2tanker -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (7/21/2020 10:29:34 PM)

Thanks. Interesting. I was unaware that Japan had that capability - at least widespread.



Leandros -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/22/2021 4:29:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: s2tanker

Thanks. Interesting. I was unaware that Japan had that capability - at least widespread.

News to me, too, and I cannot remember to have seen about that in the manual. Is this function available from the start of the war?

Fred



RangerJoe -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/22/2021 4:43:43 PM)

Two threads about the same mine, here and

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4985399&mpage=1�



rustysi -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/22/2021 7:15:00 PM)

quote:

Is this function available from the start of the war?


Negative, the mine starts production 12/42.



Leandros -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/22/2021 8:31:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Is this function available from the start of the war?


Negative, the mine starts production 12/42.


OK, thank you. What about the allied side?

Fred



rustysi -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/23/2021 10:02:05 PM)

quote:

What about the allied side?


Don't know, haven't played the Allies as yet.



rustysi -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/23/2021 10:22:40 PM)

For the Allied side go into your Intelligence screen and press button on the bottom right. It'll list all your devices and you have to search for mines and know which are airborne.

How I did it for Japan.



tolsdorff -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/25/2021 10:26:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros


.....

OK, thank you. What about the allied side?

Fred



from a combat report :
quote:

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29-25 Superfort laying Mk 13 Mine from 8000 feet *
23 x B-29-25 Superfort laying Mk 13 Mine from 6000 feet *

CAP engaged:



Mk 13 mine , 115 build rate starting from 12/42.
If it is the only airdrop-capable mine, I do not know, but the british Liberator II's use it as well.

Once read that air mining operations can only be done starting from 12/42. My current PBEM hasn't reached that far yet, no way to check.

Edit:

Additionally: The Mark 25 and Mark 26 air dropped mines were deployed in large numbers by the allies as well, but they are somehow missing from the game. Over half the mines used in operation Starvation were Mark 25's, a significant portion of the others were Mark 26's.
a site about different U.S. mines



Leandros -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/25/2021 12:35:44 PM)


Thank you!

Fred
-----



Leandros -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/25/2021 2:38:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

Once read that air mining operations can only be done starting from 12/42. My current PBEM hasn't reached that far yet, no way to check.


Have checked around a little but cannot find any info on how many mines the various a/c types carry. Any idea on that?

Fred
-----





tolsdorff -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/25/2021 5:00:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros

Have checked around a little but cannot find any info on how many mines the various a/c types carry. Any idea on that?

Fred
-----



IRL :
quote:

....Avenger and Ventura aircraft could carry a single mine and in 1944 Avengers closed Palau harbor by mining the entrances. They then sank all 32 ships in the harbor with conventional bombs and torpedoes. A total of approximately 100 ships were sunk or badly damaged in the Pacific during the war by mines laid by Navy aircraft.

By 1945, the Army Air Force was devoting considerable resources to the mining role, with 80 to 100 B-29s based at Tinian being used to mine the home waters around Japan. These B-29s could carry seven 2,000 lbs. (907 kg). or twelve 1,000 lbs. (454 kg) mines. "Operation Starvation" started in March 1945 and continued until early August with 4,900 magnetic, 3,500 acoustic, 2,900 pressure and 700 low-frequency mines being laid. These mines sank 294 ships outright, damaged another 137 beyond repair and damaged a further 239 that could be repaired. In cargo tonnage, the total was 1.4 million tons lost or damaged which was about 75% of the shipping available in March 1945....


In game, i have almost 0 knowledge.

I did do 1 experiment:

I had 22 liberator II's laying mines at a port, of which 1 turn later, there were 21 mines left.

So I wildly guess, not taking any other factors into consideration, 1 mine per airplane for that plane type. Perhaps Alfred knows more.



Alfred -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/25/2021 6:02:13 PM)

Size of airfield and range to target are factors which modify the main attribute. Aircraft load capacity and mine load cost are the core attributes.

Alfred



Leandros -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/25/2021 7:32:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Size of airfield and range to target are factors which modify the main attribute. Aircraft load capacity and mine load cost are the core attributes.

Alfred



Ok, but how do aerial mines compare to bomb loads, are they somewhat similar?

Fred



RangerJoe -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/25/2021 11:50:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Size of airfield and range to target are factors which modify the main attribute. Aircraft load capacity and mine load cost are the core attributes.

Alfred



Ok, but how do aerial mines compare to bomb loads, are they somewhat similar?

Fred


Maybe use the "cargo load" capability of the aircraft.



BBfanboy -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/26/2021 3:48:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Size of airfield and range to target are factors which modify the main attribute. Aircraft load capacity and mine load cost are the core attributes.

Alfred



Ok, but how do aerial mines compare to bomb loads, are they somewhat similar?

Fred


Maybe use the "cargo load" capability of the aircraft.

Why would they NOT be the exactly the same as the bomb load capacity? AFAIK the game does not make any abstractions for bomb bay size.



Leandros -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/26/2021 10:22:08 PM)


Removed



Leandros -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/26/2021 10:25:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Why would they NOT be the exactly the same as the bomb load capacity? AFAIK the game does not make any abstractions for bomb bay size.


That is not unreasonable (except maybe for size), but what I am after is to know the number of mines dropped whether with full or reduced load, simply to keep track on what is in stock or not.

Also the size of the airfield needed. I have found that size 7 is OK, but 5 is not. I haven't been able to "check 6".

What about dropping altitude and pilot proficiency - does it influence on accuracy? Night-drops? Mark 13 is a free-fall mine.

What about own ships and these mines?

I cannot remember to have seen any of these questions mentioned in the manual. Correct me if I am wrong.

Fred
----




John 3rd -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/27/2021 12:02:05 AM)

Been playing this damned game came out and never, EVER knew the Japanese could drop mines! Learn something every day...



BBfanboy -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/27/2021 7:49:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Why would they NOT be the exactly the same as the bomb load capacity? AFAIK the game does not make any abstractions for bomb bay size.


That is not unreasonable (except maybe for size), but what I am after is to know the number of mines dropped whether with full or reduced load, simply to keep track on what is in stock or not.

Also the size of the airfield needed. I have found that size 7 is OK, but 5 is not. I haven't been able to "check 6".

What about dropping altitude and pilot proficiency - does it influence on accuracy? Night-drops? Mark 13 is a free-fall mine.

What about own ships and these mines?

I cannot remember to have seen any of these questions mentioned in the manual. Correct me if I am wrong.

Fred
----



When dropping mines I don't think there were many instances where you had to hit a narrow patch of water - you just mine the whole big bay. Accuracy is pretty irrelevant then - you have to rely on the enemy ships in accurately locating them the hard way. [:)]
The game has an attack profile that always has the plane go to drop altitude, like it does for torpedoes, so don't worry about altitude. The mines should be handled the same way as ship-laid mines vis-à-vis your own ships.



Leandros -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/27/2021 8:37:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Been playing this damned game came out and never, EVER knew the Japanese could drop mines! Learn something every day...



Me, neither, but I got suspicious when my minesweepers started finding mines in patrolled ports without having observed any enemy ships. Nor did my nightly air patrols.

So, how to counter nightly enemy air mining - only with nightly fighter sweeps, I suppose - and frequent minesweeping?

Fred
----



tolsdorff -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/27/2021 11:09:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros

Me, neither, but I got suspicious when my minesweepers started finding mines in patrolled ports without having observed any enemy ships. Nor did my nightly air patrols.

So, how to counter nightly enemy air mining - only with nightly fighter sweeps, I suppose - and frequent minesweeping?

Fred
----


Frequent minesweeping always helps. As allies, as you are probably aware of, you get so many ships capable of minesweeping that all ports can be covered with ease.

As mentioned in other posts, you apparently always get a message when and where the enemy airdrops mines. So at least, you always know where to sweep.




Leandros -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/27/2021 12:54:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

As mentioned in other posts, you apparently always get a message when and where the enemy airdrops mines. So at least, you always know where to sweep.


I cannot say I have noted any such messages. I may have overseen them or I am mistaken in that my opponent is air mining.

Fred



Leandros -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/28/2021 9:01:00 PM)


Oh, yes - there i was notified on own aerial minelaying - but no specification on number of mines dropped! I wonder, is the opposition notified, too? I haven't seen any such.

Fred



tolsdorff -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/29/2021 6:08:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros


Oh, yes - there i was notified on own aerial minelaying - but no specification on number of mines dropped! I wonder, is the opposition notified, too? I haven't seen any such.

Fred


Apparently, as other posts in topics concerning aerial mining have indicated, everyone gets a notification. The lack of such messages might indicate that the mines you found were submarine delivered?



Leandros -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/29/2021 3:54:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

Apparently, as other posts in topics concerning aerial mining have indicated, everyone gets a notification. The lack of such messages might indicate that the mines you found were submarine delivered?


Thank you, I also noted that enemy minesweepers immediately started sweeping after I had dropped some mines. Most should be cleared up, then.

Fred



tolsdorff -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/29/2021 5:02:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros


quote:

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

Apparently, as other posts in topics concerning aerial mining have indicated, everyone gets a notification. The lack of such messages might indicate that the mines you found were submarine delivered?


Thank you, I also noted that enemy minesweepers immediately started sweeping after I had dropped some mines. Most should be cleared up, then.

Fred



That does not seem very effective then.

Throughout the years, my overall impression of aerial mining, mostly from this forum, from people describing their experience with regard to aerial mining, isn't really positive. No references, just a general impression that stuck. I therefor never really bothered with them.
Perhaps it is nothing more than an exercise in futility, akin to the Japanese midget subs.




Leandros -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/29/2021 5:43:09 PM)


Well, he must have minesweepers available...[;)]...The thing is, I suppose, to be persistent and to concentrate ones efforts.

Fred
-----



RangerJoe -> RE: Type 3 IJN mine (3/29/2021 7:06:49 PM)

If you can drop the mines and then have a naval air attack in the same area . . . [:o]

It is a denial weapon. Many of the mines ended up on mud flats, others were observed being dropped, and the aircraft may have been seen/heard as well.



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