Weird 1-hex bottlenecks next to SHQ (Full Version)

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Il_Palazzo -> Weird 1-hex bottlenecks next to SHQ (7/23/2020 12:07:59 AM)

Does anyone else get these weird 1 hex-long bottlenecks right next to their SHQ?

(turns out I can't post image links this soon after registering, so let me describe the problem)

I have a large empire with a single SHQ. There are three straight roads (no nearby intersections) leaving the city. The roads have plenty high-level and partially overlapping truck stations supplying logistics points.
Each round, there are thousands leftover logistics points along each of the three roads, with the exception of the very first connection to the city, going each way. Those are completely used up.
Supplies seem to be mostly getting where they're needed, but I haven't been able to replace losses or send colonists for a long time now.

I thought I could fix this by building additional truck stations on the hexes next to the city, but they're not sending any truck points towards the SHQ - only away from it (assuming that would be of any help). So e.g. the truck station south of the city sends all of its log pts southwards. <- this might be a separate issue

Later on I built a railway, and it does the same thing, with the entire length at ~90% throughput, and the first hex at 0%.

Anyone knows what's causing it or how to fix it? Is it a bug or working as intended (in which case, what is the intent)?

I'm playing 1.04 beta9, btw. Meaning, the pull point system is in (although I seem to vaguely remember the same thing happening occasionally in pre-pull versions as well).



demiare -> RE: Weird 1-hex bottlenecks next to SHQ (7/23/2020 12:21:12 AM)

Check SHQ logistic limits - are they're used (see picture)?

Are you using railroads? Truck stations are not for empire-scale.

quote:

I'm playing 1.04 beta9, btw.


Did you STARTED this game at beta9? Because in beta9 truck points are not going past truck station, so "MOAR stations!" will not work at all...

[image]local://upfiles/72462/6512B4844BED40C484A0C9DA4653D124.jpg[/image]



Il_Palazzo -> RE: Weird 1-hex bottlenecks next to SHQ (7/23/2020 12:45:53 AM)

The SHQ log looks roughly like this:

sent/requested:
SHQ>ZONE 100%
SHQ>UNIT 80%
ZONE>SHQ 30%
REPLACEMENT 0%
logistical point usage:
SHQ>ZONE 50%
SHQ>UNIT 120%
ZONE>SHQ 110%
REPLACEMENT 0%


As I already mentioned, I did build a railway network recently, and it is bottlencecked in the same way.

I might have started with an earlier beta patch (two back, maybe?). In any case, the traffic log shows truck points from all other stations passing through just fine.
Unless it's just those stations built after updating the game to beta9 that are affected by the new rules.



demiare -> RE: Weird 1-hex bottlenecks next to SHQ (7/23/2020 1:03:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Il_Palazzo

SHQ>UNIT 120%
ZONE>SHQ 110%

As I already mentioned, I did build a railway network recently, and it is bottlencecked in the same way.


^THIS. You don't have enough logistic points to feed all your units. Temporary solution is to raise % of logistics allowed to be used on units (select SHQ and hit "Unit Admin" in right menu), but you really need to deal with your logistics network.

You need to level up or even build MORE truck/rail stations. Especially around your bottleneck.

You could increase your stations output by building 1-hex road from city, placing here station(-s) so they can only push their logistics points through that city. Or build it on existing road and block direction opposite to city (as you could guess - you shouldn't use that road to supply anything, or at least limit it to rails/trucks only).

quote:

Unless it's just those stations built after updating the game to beta9 that are affected by the new rules.


No, rules are hard-coded in game save.



Il_Palazzo -> RE: Weird 1-hex bottlenecks next to SHQ (7/23/2020 1:38:27 AM)

I don't get it. I can see that there are more requests than get delivered (that's the whole problem), but shouldn't this drain the entire road's logistics points? Not just the ones right next to the SHQ? Those roads still have thousands of pts left over, so what is being drained, exactly?

I will try isolating the suburban stations - that sounds like it might be a good workaround. Although I still don't understand what's stopping them from sending half their points towards the city in the setup described above.



lloydster4 -> RE: Weird 1-hex bottlenecks next to SHQ (7/23/2020 3:41:07 AM)

I'm guessing that it's the hex the SHQ is sitting on that has actually run out of LP, not the adjacent hexes.

For example, lets say you have 10k LP per hex in your capitol and each of the 3 roads leading out. If each road transports 3.3k, then the capitol would be out of LP but each of the roads would still have 6.6k remaining.

I could be wrong though. Admittedly, I haven't played with any of the beta's.



Il_Palazzo -> RE: Weird 1-hex bottlenecks next to SHQ (7/23/2020 4:25:00 AM)

But if I had 10k LP per each road, it should mean I have 30k LP in the capital, where the three roads converge, no?



DTurtle -> RE: Weird 1-hex bottlenecks next to SHQ (7/23/2020 3:55:10 PM)

I think that if you post a screenshot of the bottleneck view, it will be quite apparent what is happening.



Il_Palazzo -> RE: Weird 1-hex bottlenecks next to SHQ (7/24/2020 12:16:21 AM)

As was mentioned, I can't post pictures or links yet, so replace the 'dot' with an actual dot in the address below.
imgur dot com/LPwWUAX
The pic shows the setup after I built a couple isolated stations to add LPs to the city hex. The two traffic signs block all movement from the city only.



lloydster4 -> RE: Weird 1-hex bottlenecks next to SHQ (7/24/2020 2:17:47 AM)

It's as I thought. The capitol hex doesn't have enough LP.



Il_Palazzo -> RE: Weird 1-hex bottlenecks next to SHQ (7/24/2020 2:50:31 AM)

Yes, I understand that. But why? Where is it going to, if not to carry items over the roads?

Look, if I had one road, with 1 LP on it, it'd supply 1 LP to the city hex. I'd understand if e.g. the city then used that 1 LP to send 1 unit of supplies to a zone or whatnot, which should to my understanding drain the 1 LP over the entire road as well as on the city hex. Here, I have a situation where the city hex loses the 1 LP but the road still has it.

At this point I just want to understand what's happening, mechanics-wise.
Is there maybe some activity happening entirely within the city hex that drains LPs on this hex only? Something that doesn't involve sending anything over the roads?



lloydster4 -> RE: Weird 1-hex bottlenecks next to SHQ (7/24/2020 4:09:15 AM)

Impossible to say without more data. I would start by looking at the Initial, Used, and Current overlays.

As far as I know, there is never an instance where LP is consumed while moving supplies within a hex. So the problem has to involve moving supplies along the roads.



DTurtle -> RE: Weird 1-hex bottlenecks next to SHQ (7/26/2020 4:15:06 PM)

Yeah, there is simply too much stuff being moved around in all directions. Upgrade your truck station in the capital, build railroads, etc.

I'm not 100% sure that moving stuff from the city to the SHQ in the same hex doesn't use truck points/logistical points.



zgrssd -> RE: Weird 1-hex bottlenecks next to SHQ (7/26/2020 5:55:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Il_Palazzo

Does anyone else get these weird 1 hex-long bottlenecks right next to their SHQ?


Nope.
But if you get them that means there is too much Stuff (trying) to go through that one hex. Nationalize the truck station in the city, if you somehow have not done so. Otherwise upgrade the truck station in the city.

400-500 = 0
400+200 = 600
600-500 = 100

That is the entire math regarding how a bottleneck develops and is fixed.



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