US east coast escorts (Full Version)

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jesperpehrson -> US east coast escorts (7/24/2020 8:56:39 PM)

Several convoys and american NAV are in the 0-box. There is a CW CA in the 3-box.
Some german SUBs are in the 1,2 and 3boxes.
US is neutral.
Options 11 and 20 are chosen.

Both roll 1.

Is it correct that the convoys and the NAV are not included in the combat?



Courtenay -> RE: US east coast escorts (7/24/2020 10:36:46 PM)

Depends on the weather. If weather is fine, the US units should be included. If it is anything else, they should not be.



jesperpehrson -> RE: US east coast escorts (7/24/2020 10:44:05 PM)

MWIF does not agree with that. The weather was fine and the allied 0-box was not included.



jesperpehrson -> RE: US east coast escorts (7/24/2020 10:44:52 PM)

Are there any other opinions on this before I write to Steve about a bug?



Courtenay -> RE: US east coast escorts (7/25/2020 1:58:34 AM)

One thing: If there are only US convoys in the zero box and option 32 hasn't been chosen, then the US units would not be included. There would have to be a CW or Free French CP in the zero box, or US CPs shipping resources to the Allies (option 32) for the US units to be included. However, I assume that is the case, as I can't imagine the East Coast with no CW CPs in it.



brian brian -> RE: US east coast escorts (7/25/2020 2:50:07 AM)

Aren’t there separate options for the US East Coast and N. Atlantic sea zones? Is this example in the N. Atlantic?



jesperpehrson -> RE: US east coast escorts (7/25/2020 4:54:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Aren’t there separate options for the US East Coast and N. Atlantic sea zones? Is this example in the N. Atlantic?


They are separate options but this was in the US East Coast.



jesperpehrson -> RE: US east coast escorts (7/25/2020 4:55:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

One thing: If there are only US convoys in the zero box and option 32 hasn't been chosen, then the US units would not be included. There would have to be a CW or Free French CP in the zero box, or US CPs shipping resources to the Allies (option 32) for the US units to be included. However, I assume that is the case, as I can't imagine the East Coast with no CW CPs in it.


Correct. There are CW convoys there.



paulderynck -> RE: US east coast escorts (7/26/2020 5:08:43 PM)

Seems it is interpretive. The US units are neutral but escorting the convoys so if the CPs are not put at risk, then there would be no need to include the escorting units.

But checking the rules sections on committing units for naval combat and on multiple states of war, I'd say the Nav causes the zero box to be in the combat.




Orm -> RE: US east coast escorts (7/26/2020 5:43:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Seems it is interpretive. The US units are neutral but escorting the convoys so if the CPs are not put at risk, then there would be no need to include the escorting units.

But checking the rules sections on committing units for naval combat and on multiple states of war, I'd say the Nav causes the zero box to be in the combat.



I say that the multiple states of war doesn't apply here. US are not at war with any MP included. So the US forces doesn't find any enemy forces because there are no enemy forces there. I say that MWIF made the right call here. The US forces are only included as a 'courtesy' when the CW CPs are included. They are not allowed to hunt enemy ships, only to defend the CPs.

In short. No bug in my humble opinion.



Centuur -> RE: US east coast escorts (7/27/2020 1:24:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Seems it is interpretive. The US units are neutral but escorting the convoys so if the CPs are not put at risk, then there would be no need to include the escorting units.

But checking the rules sections on committing units for naval combat and on multiple states of war, I'd say the Nav causes the zero box to be in the combat.



I say that the multiple states of war doesn't apply here. US are not at war with any MP included. So the US forces doesn't find any enemy forces because there are no enemy forces there. I say that MWIF made the right call here. The US forces are only included as a 'courtesy' when the CW CPs are included. They are not allowed to hunt enemy ships, only to defend the CPs.

In short. No bug in my humble opinion.


I agree. The US hasn't got any enemy to search for, so the US NAV can't give the active Allies a search roll bonus to find their enemy. A US escort cannot be disorganized by the Allies to search for the enemy too...



paulderynck -> RE: US east coast escorts (7/27/2020 7:00:34 PM)

I still say it's interpretive and could go either way. I agree with the point raised by Centuur and Orm, but how does this paragraph at the end of 9.9 (RAW - Have not checked RAC) apply:

"Exceptions to the restriction on neutral naval units fighting are US units escorting Allied convoys (see 13.3.2, entry options 11, 29 & 38) and all US units after unrestricted naval warfare is chosen (entry option 50)."

Mind you that leaves out NAVs which would be entry option 20. But what if the naval escort units includes a CV with a search bonus? Might be interesting to test the same situation with a CV (with a search bonus) instead of a NAV.



Centuur -> RE: US east coast escorts (7/28/2020 2:40:41 PM)

It's interpretive. That's for sure, since there is no FAQ on this subject.



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