Ship Upgrade Mistake

Ship Upgrade Mistake (Full Version)

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Flicker -> Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/27/2020 3:22:54 PM)
I'm in the middle of a game and I inadvertently upgraded some USN Wickes class destroyers to DDLR instead of DE as I wanted (I did upgrade some to the desired class). I searched the forum, but couldn't find any help. I'm not familiar with the editor (if it exists), have no idea what file (or where it is) contains the ship data, and I generally do not mess with game files or even install mods. Is there any way to change the upgraded DDLR destroyers to DE destroyers? Or do I just accept that I made a mistake and drive on?

Bo Rearguard -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/27/2020 3:29:00 PM)
Sorry. But if my experience is anything to go by it's permanent. The editor can't alter a ship's make-up after the game has started. Although you can use it to alter aircraft type arrival dates.

Bo Rearguard -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/27/2020 3:54:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Flicker I'm not familiar with the editor (if it exists), It's usually found in the Scenario (Scen) file.

Ian R -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/27/2020 4:10:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Flicker I'm in the middle of a game and I inadvertently upgraded some USN Wickes class destroyers to DDLR instead of DE as I wanted (I did upgrade some to the desired class). I searched the forum, but couldn't find any help. I'm not familiar with the editor (if it exists), have no idea what file (or where it is) contains the ship data, and I generally do not mess with game files or even install mods. Is there any way to change the upgraded DDLR destroyers to DE destroyers? Or do I just accept that I made a mistake and drive on? Are you playing a standard scenario (numbered 1-15) or a modded one? If it is standard scenario, you can't change the ship class data files and save the edits. If it is a modded scenario, there is a way to reverse the upgrade by creating (temporarily) a conversion option for the DDLR to DE configuration. If what you are talking about was itself a conversion, rather than an upgrade, it may be as simple as checking a couple of "convert from" and "convert to" boxes in the ship class. editor.

Flicker -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/27/2020 4:14:57 PM)
Thank you both for responding. I'll just accept my mistake and drive on. Bo, thanks for the file location. Ian, I play standard games; thanks for the comment concurring with what Bo said.

Bo Rearguard -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/27/2020 4:17:45 PM)
A lot of players have clamored for an in-game editor in the past. But even if possible, it likely would have raised major trust issues in a PBEM game.

Alfred -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/27/2020 4:55:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bo Rearguard A lot of players have clamored for an in-game editor in the past. But even if possible, it likely would have raised major trust issues in a PBEM game. Absolutely no way there will ever be an ingame editor to edit saved files. Having one completely destroys the PBEM security measures. Alfred

Ian R -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/27/2020 5:04:01 PM)
How about one that doesn't work on PBEM files for all the people who play the AI?

Alfred -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/27/2020 5:54:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ian R How about one that doesn't work on PBEM files for all the people who play the AI? Not possible to make that distinction. Alfred

rockmedic109 -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/27/2020 5:55:22 PM)
I keep two saves for the current turn, one for the previous day, two weekly {each day divisible by 7--one for one week and another for two weeks ago}, and another for the first of the month. I overwrite old saves in the same slots. Not really an editor, but a way of going back if I made a recent mistake. I can't remember using a prior save in my current game, but I used it when I was first learning the game.

RangerJoe -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/27/2020 6:40:28 PM)
I save every turn, when the folder fills up I just move them and keep saving. I am only playing the AI - boy does it lose! [:D]

rockmedic109 -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/27/2020 8:28:24 PM)
The other way to do it is to think up a story for it. Including proper punishment of the miscreant who ordered or failed to order the problem. I am in mid '44 and have two or more subs damaged for each successful attack. Every time one gets damaged I imagine Representative May getting kidnapped and ending up on a sub as it goes out on patrol and as soon as it returns, getting dragged over to the next boat leaving.

BBfanboy -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/27/2020 9:14:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rockmedic109 The other way to do it is to think up a story for it. Including proper punishment of the miscreant who ordered or failed to order the problem. I am in mid '44 and have two or more subs damaged for each successful attack. Every time one gets damaged I imagine Representative May getting kidnapped and ending up on a sub as it goes out on patrol and as soon as it returns, getting dragged over to the next boat leaving. Is that a reference to Andrew May, who blabbed about the US subs being able to go deeper than the IJ depth charges?

rockmedic109 -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/27/2020 9:30:18 PM)
Yep.

Bo Rearguard -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/27/2020 9:33:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy Is that a reference to Andrew May, who blabbed about the US subs being able to go deeper than the IJ depth charges? Yup. Also the same House Member May who was a shameless and corrupt war profiteer. Early in the war, he linked up with businessmen and brothers Murray and Henry Garsson. The Garsson brothers had no prior experience with arms manufacturing. But they were eager to cash in on lucrative military contracts. Congressman May lobbied army officials on their behalf. Despite their lack of experience, the Garsson brothers received some military contracts. For his efforts, Congressman May received large cash payments from the brothers. Unfortunately, their inexperience and rush to fill the orders for mortar shells led to disaster. Rounds shipped out with defective fuses, which detonated prematurely. 38 Army soldiers lost their lives in such premature detonations. Then after that and the depth charge scandal he gets all of nine months in prison and a presidential pardon. Jerk. [img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Andrew_J._May_cropped.jpg/330px-Andrew_J._May_cropped.jpg[/img]

RangerJoe -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/27/2020 10:07:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bo Rearguard quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy Is that a reference to Andrew May, who blabbed about the US subs being able to go deeper than the IJ depth charges? Yup. Also the same House Member May who was a shameless and corrupt war profiteer. Early in the war, he linked up with businessmen and brothers Murray and Henry Garsson. The Garsson brothers had no prior experience with arms manufacturing. But they were eager to cash in on lucrative military contracts. Congressman May lobbied army officials on their behalf. Despite their lack of experience, the Garsson brothers received some military contracts. For his efforts, Congressman May received large cash payments from the brothers. Unfortunately, their inexperience and rush to fill the orders for mortar shells led to disaster. Rounds shipped out with defective fuses, which detonated prematurely. 38 Army soldiers lost their lives in such premature detonations. Then after that and the depth charge scandal he gets all of nine months in prison and a presidential pardon. Jerk. [img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Andrew_J._May_cropped.jpg/330px-Andrew_J._May_cropped.jpg[/img] He should have been shot.

Kull -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/27/2020 11:58:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Flicker I'm in the middle of a game and I inadvertently upgraded some USN Wickes class destroyers to DDLR instead of DE as I wanted (I did upgrade some to the desired class). I searched the forum, but couldn't find any help. I'm not familiar with the editor (if it exists), have no idea what file (or where it is) contains the ship data, and I generally do not mess with game files or even install mods. Is there any way to change the upgraded DDLR destroyers to DE destroyers? Or do I just accept that I made a mistake and drive on? It's not as bad as you think. Wickes DE starts off with more ASW, but in May 1943 the Wickes DDLR upgrades to the DDLR-H, and THOSE guys have Hedgehogs (which the DEs never get). And they also get the Mk7, which packs 3x the punch of the DE's Mk9s (see attachment). Assuming that "better ASW" is your goal, in the long run you're better off with the DDLR-H! [image]local://upfiles/25668/D8E6A02967F9417AA477B39837D26151.jpg[/image]

Lowpe -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/28/2020 12:25:44 AM)
Kull, Any idea what the LR stands for. H is hedgehog I assume. Thanks.

Kull -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/28/2020 12:33:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe Kull, Any idea what the LR stands for. H is hedgehog I assume. Thanks. "Long Range". The endurance improves from 3500 to 4115 with both the DE and DDLR upgrades. Oddly, the Clemson DE classes get the "LR" appendix, but the Wickes do not.

Lowpe -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/28/2020 1:15:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kull quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe Kull, Any idea what the LR stands for. H is hedgehog I assume. Thanks. "Long Range". The endurance improves from 3500 to 4115 with both the DE and DDLR upgrades. Oddly, the Clemson DE classes get the "LR" appendix, but the Wickes do not. LB and HB for Fletchers? Can you be stumped?

Kull -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/28/2020 3:11:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: Kull quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe Kull, Any idea what the LR stands for. H is hedgehog I assume. Thanks. "Long Range". The endurance improves from 3500 to 4115 with both the DE and DDLR upgrades. Oddly, the Clemson DE classes get the "LR" appendix, but the Wickes do not. LB and HB for Fletchers? Can you be stumped? Don't get me started on these guys. Peerless though they are, there is almost no difference between the Fletcher HB and LB classes - of the 12 database entries (six each), the 11/42 LB has one more Oerlikon than the HB.....and that is IT! The upgrade dates, endurance, armament, you name it, all are identical - including the bmp files. Which is the real rub. Because "LB" has the "low bridge" profile while "HB" has the "high bridge" profile, meaning that the only way to differentiate them is by appearance, but alas, we can't do that. To be fair, the visible difference - at the AE scale - is just a few pixels. And to his everlasting credit, Big B has actually created shipsides for each one (see attached), but absent modding new bmp file numbers into the database, you can't put both in game at the same time, even with a foldered system. [image]local://upfiles/25668/7453122F58CD424B83E24005E79499EC.jpg[/image]

Alfred -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/28/2020 4:19:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kull quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: Kull quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe Kull, Any idea what the LR stands for. H is hedgehog I assume. Thanks. "Long Range". The endurance improves from 3500 to 4115 with both the DE and DDLR upgrades. Oddly, the Clemson DE classes get the "LR" appendix, but the Wickes do not. LB and HB for Fletchers? Can you be stumped? Don't get me started on these guys. Peerless though they are, there is almost no difference between the Fletcher HB and LB classes - of the 12 database entries (six each), the 11/42 LB has one more Oerlikon than the HB.....and that is IT! The upgrade dates, endurance, armament, you name it, all are identical - including the bmp files. Which is the real rub. Because "LB" has the "low bridge" profile while "HB" has the "high bridge" profile, meaning that the only way to differentiate them is by appearance, but alas, we can't do that. To be fair, the visible difference - at the AE scale - is just a few pixels. And to his everlasting credit, Big B has actually created shipsides for each one (see attached), but absent modding new bmp file numbers into the database, you can't put both in game at the same time, even with a foldered system. [image]local://upfiles/25668/7453122F58CD424B83E24005E79499EC.jpg[/image] For those interested in the devs' views on LB v HB Fletchers, you can read this thread. https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3531486&mpage=1&key=Fletcher� Alfred

LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/28/2020 12:04:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe LB and HB for Fletchers? Can you be stumped? Pfff.... noobs. Here is one for the real experts [;)]: [image]local://upfiles/1313/EE7895CFF464433FBA3FB683407ACA8B.jpg[/image]

Ian R -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/28/2020 2:10:46 PM)
One of those is not like the others, i.e. not 'high angle' DP. Edit: I can't be bothered looking it up, but one of the pre-war DD classes was armed with it. It may be the Porters that had SP mounts that restricted use.

Lowpe -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/28/2020 2:30:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe LB and HB for Fletchers? Can you be stumped? Pfff.... noobs. Here is one for the real experts [;)]: [image]local://upfiles/1313/EE7895CFF464433FBA3FB683407ACA8B.jpg[/image] I actually wrote a post about those destroyer guns.[;)] I will have to find it now, because I sure as hell can't remember what I wrote.[:D]

Zorch -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/28/2020 3:38:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe LB and HB for Fletchers? Can you be stumped? Pfff.... noobs. Here is one for the real experts [;)]: [image]local://upfiles/1313/EE7895CFF464433FBA3FB683407ACA8B.jpg[/image] I actually wrote a post about those destroyer guns.[;)] I will have to find it now, because I sure as hell can't remember what I wrote.[:D] Welcome to old age. [8\|]

BBfanboy -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/28/2020 4:57:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe LB and HB for Fletchers? Can you be stumped? Pfff.... noobs. Here is one for the real experts [;)]: [image]local://upfiles/1313/EE7895CFF464433FBA3FB683407ACA8B.jpg[/image] I actually wrote a post about those destroyer guns.[;)] I will have to find it now, because I sure as hell can't remember what I wrote.[:D] EBR is Extended Ballistic Range. OP is (I think) something like Ordinary Pattern (original design, no enhancements) Not sure what the S stands for - Special I guess.

RangerJoe -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/28/2020 6:02:10 PM)
I thought that "E" meant enclosed, as in a turret while "O" stood for open, with no turret. Look at the pictures . . .

Alfred -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/28/2020 6:33:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe LB and HB for Fletchers? Can you be stumped? Pfff.... noobs. Here is one for the real experts [;)]: [image]local://upfiles/1313/EE7895CFF464433FBA3FB683407ACA8B.jpg[/image] I actually wrote a post about those destroyer guns.[;)] I will have to find it now, because I sure as hell can't remember what I wrote.[:D] EBR is Extended Ballistic Range. OP is (I think) something like Ordinary Pattern (original design, no enhancements) Not sure what the S stands for - Special I guess. They refer to the mount type. BR = Base Ring E = Enclosed o = Open P = Pedestal S = Single (S) = Shielded Hence in the game: EBR = Enclosed Base Rings OBR = Open Base Rings OP = Open Pedestal OP(S) = Open Pedestal Shielded SEBR = Enclosed Base Rings Single SP EBR = Single Purpose Enclosed Base Ring Alfred

Flicker -> RE: Ship Upgrade Mistake (7/28/2020 7:09:40 PM)
Kull - thanks for the comment about Wickes DDLR turning into Hedgehoggers. You're right that I want them for ASW - their job is to escort convoys from the West Coast to Pearl, with the occasional ASW TF mission. LOL now I want to turn all of my Wickes into DDLRs. The ship upgrade paths are rabbit holes I haven't explored in all my years of gameplay. Message to the Japanese AI - 'timeout' while I learn more about the game.

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