Funny comment witnessed at Battlefront (Full Version)

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Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> Funny comment witnessed at Battlefront (8/4/2003 11:48:58 PM)

"Hmm a wargame that has not been discussed in depth on the battlefront forum. I can wait."


Hehe, and some forums wonder why they are known the way they are known hehe.

All I can say guys, is I am glad Matrix Games/Wargamer is about wargaming in all it's many guises, and not just a petty tool for a few games, as if the rest of the world doesn't exist.

Hoping to get a dvd burner, but unless I see another wargame appear on the buy it now list, I suppose Korsun can sit on my rank one spot of games to buy.
Might not manage it till christmas season sadly though :(

Yes everyone knows I really want Combat Leader, but they are still working on it....drat.




Paul Vebber -> (8/5/2003 12:30:11 AM)

My feeling is that "if we don't hang together we will all hang seperately" in the wargame community.

It pains me to see one community bash another...one company does not an industry make...

Several over there seem to be receptive. Rather than gripe about those who are not, why not at least help them get their facts straight: like KP DOES ship with a printed player guide (though the manual is indeed a pdf. But it can be printed easily through Kinkos, etc...)




Wilhammer -> (8/5/2003 12:46:04 AM)

Quote:
"It pains me to see one community bash another...one company does not an industry make..."


In all fairness, Paul, this was NOT one wargame community based bashing of your company.

Go to the thread yourself and see that that poster knows nothing.

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=009164


With your 'shooting from the hip, condemn them all at BTS attitude, maybe I'll just wait for Korsun Pocket on Usenet as a download....




Spaceman -> (8/5/2003 1:01:43 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wilhammer
[B]Quote:
"It pains me to see one community bash another...one company does not an industry make..."


In all fairness, Paul, this was NOT one wargame community based bashing of your company.

Go to the thread yourself and see that that poster knows nothing.

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=009164


With your 'shooting from the hip, condemn them all at BTS attitude, maybe I'll just wait for Korsun Pocket on Usenet as a download.... [/B][/QUOTE]

Strange posting Willhammer. Not quite sure what you are trying to achieve with it.

I looked at the thread - and learned nothing much from it at all. I am not sure which poster you are saying knows nothing, there are several posters and it seems like a straighforward average bulletin board conversation to me.

As for bashing Paul and threatening to download for free on USENET, well just go ahead and do that to make some sort of petty point - and then pretty soon developers will stop making games - starting with minority interest areas like wargaming. Paul's point is that infighting doesn't help the industry, that's all.

So if Paul's post is enough to get you downloading off usenet then perhaps you don't deserve a game this good?

Space§man




wodin -> (8/5/2003 1:02:54 AM)

Combat Leader..............looking forward to it!!

Korsun pocket will be my next purchase.

As for certain forums just dont go there. CMBB is a good enough game but Ive played the demo of strategic command and it honestly left me feeling cold.

Thats why I have posted earlier with regards to atmosphere with Korsun Pocket.

Wodin




Paul Vebber -> (8/5/2003 1:11:32 AM)

[QUOTE]With your 'shooting from the hip, condemn them all at BTS attitude, maybe I'll just wait for Korsun Pocket on Usenet as a download....[/QUOTE]

My comment was much an admonishment of Les not to deride posts made on the other forum as it was aimed at the orignal BTS poster. I know Les meant well, but its so easy to breed animosity between communities! That helps no one!

Please show me where I single out BTS for criticism? The point was that it is not good form for members of either community to deride posts made by the other.

As for shoot from the hip...:rolleyes:




David Heath -> Re: Funny comment witnessed at Battlefront (8/5/2003 1:13:49 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
[B]"Hmm a wargame that has not been discussed in depth on the battlefront forum. I can wait."


Hehe, and some forums wonder why they are known the way they are known hehe.

All I can say guys, is I am glad Matrix Games/Wargamer is about wargaming in all it's many guises, and not just a petty tool for a few games, as if the rest of the world doesn't exist.

Hoping to get a dvd burner, but unless I see another wargame appear on the buy it now list, I suppose Korsun can sit on my rank one spot of games to buy.
Might not manage it till christmas season sadly though :(

Yes everyone knows I really want Combat Leader, but they are still working on it....drat. [/B][/QUOTE]

Guys I read that post and its not strange at all its one fellow gamers point of view. Bottom line is if you interested buy it if not don't. For those fans of the SSG and the system I think you will be very happy with Korsun Pocket.

David




Wilhammer -> (8/5/2003 2:11:44 AM)

Please show me where I single out BTS for criticism?

Done in my admonishment, Paul.

As for my shooting from the hip, you 'drew' first.

As for what I deserve, well, that is my choice to make, ins't it?

For what it's worth, you will find I want to own this game, but Paul's derisive tone needed to be poined out, or GIC will get all over Matrix.

You DID say one community was bashing another -

And, further, a companies attitude is, too me, as important as its products.

Thanks, Mr. Heath for your balanced response.




Sonny -> Re: Re: Funny comment witnessed at Battlefront (8/5/2003 2:20:54 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by David Heath
[B]...... Bottom line is if you interested buy it if not don't. ......... [/B][/QUOTE]

No, no, no!! Buy it anyway - support the gaming industry - especially the turn-based gaming industry!:D


(Just kidding, I know not everyone buys games they are not interested in just to support a compamy/industry - except maybe me.)




Paul Vebber -> (8/5/2003 2:48:31 AM)

[QUOTE]For what it's worth, you will find I want to own this game, but Paul's derisive tone needed to be poined out, or GIC will get all over Matrix.[/QUOTE]

My derisive tone is in your head, not my words.

[QUOTE]or GIC will get all over Matrix.[/QUOTE]

Whats a "GIC" and how does it "get all over"?

[QUOTE]Hehe, and some forums wonder why they are known the way they are known hehe.[/QUOTE]

Could it be that THAT was that comment here in this forum I was commenting on?

You jump to the WRONG conclusion I was singling out battlefront when I was NOT.

The whole purpose of the post was to point out that beig overly sensitive to any and all PERCEIVED slights and "attitudes" is to the overall detriment of the hobby.

It didn't take long for the reason to demonstrated...




Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (8/5/2003 3:34:33 AM)

Hmm this thread has gotten waaaaaaay out of whack hehe.

Ok I noticed one count em one only post at Battlefront. It was not a barrage by any stretch :)

Battlefront is indeed a bit insular, but that is their right, I don't deny it to them, but I won't give them occalades either.

They can be either a great maker of games, and a pillar in the wargaming community, or merely a great maker of a few games, and not supportive of the hobby as a whole.
They chose the later. But that's their choice to make.

I should mention, that over at Wargamer Discussions where I help moderate, mention pirated games (or the means to do so) or even just supportive dialogue of the practice, and me or Bismarck will have a race to see who bans you firstest.

But I don't moderate here, so that is not my function.

Maybe my original post was not conducive to cross site political correctness.
I was just saddened, that someone at Battlefront could imply, that if it means nothing at Battlefront, it couldn't possibly have merit.

I discontinued directly participating in their forums, as a way of indicating, if they won't seek to support the hobby beyond the walls of Battlefront, then they had done nothing to earn my direct support of them as well.

I won't say their forums are not worth reading, I just won't contribute.

We wargamers all need each other. Ours is not a mass market volume friendly hobby. Standing alone is not advisable.




Toxie -> (8/5/2003 3:37:25 AM)

Folks it seems to me this thread about BTS has gotten
way out of hand. Paul's initial comment's don't seem
derisive to me at all. Imho, he just pointed out that
one comment doesn't a board make. And the discussion
seemed quite positive and eager to get KP as here.

I actually in the CMBB section I asked for a 'quick
battle' in KP area so I could get in the mood for
Korsun Pocket till I can get my hands on it:D

Anyway, let's kill this thread and get on to more
positive comments about darn good wargamming
games of all types...especially Korsun Pocket
(and TAO 3!) :D

Toxie




Wilhammer -> (8/5/2003 3:56:41 AM)

GIC is G.I. Combat.

GIC is forum spewage about another forum or game company.

Paul, you are right, both of us has proven how easy it is to GIC the place up.

I apologize for upsetting you and others.

I withdraw, the field is yours.




riverbravo -> (8/5/2003 4:10:44 AM)

Is the GIC...G I Combat?

If so I think he's trying some voodooo or somthing wishing KP the same fate as GIC?

Im not a big fan of the style of KP.Although it does have my attention and mite have to give it a go after I hear some more rave reviews.From what I understand its a real good game.

GIC will be all over matrix?Sounds like a rash.......lol.




Paul Vebber -> (8/5/2003 4:26:58 AM)

[QUOTE]I withdraw, the field is yours.[/QUOTE]

No winners, just an unfortunate miscommunication.




Ross Moorhouse -> (8/5/2003 5:51:03 AM)

I know this is about KP. But it seems to be going off topic so I am moving this thread.




wodin -> (8/5/2003 5:56:54 AM)

There is no doubt that battlefront produce quality wargames.

And so do Matrix.

Who buys them well we buy them. We being wargamers and any good wargame which gets new people into the hobby is all well and good with me.

If you dont like a game dont buy it same goes for forums just dont join in. Though I havent posted much on this site I really like the whole vibe of it. So I check here on a regular basis...also seeing what news there might be on the upcoming games that Im desperate to get my little hands on!

I also feel quite at home at the wargaming forum.

Lets all get back to talking about Korsun pocket and somebody please pretty please answer my earlier post as Im really interested in any answers you can give before I buy
:) ;) :)

Wodin




riverbravo -> (8/5/2003 8:45:51 AM)

I noticed a KP thread at the BF forums and it was locked or moved.Sad.

Also another thread about some magic game,this is on the general topic boards.

Pathetic,you give any other games any kinda recognition and they bury the thread.
.:cool:




Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (8/5/2003 9:21:52 AM)

The only thing I didn't like about Battlefront is a minor thing mostly.

Mention a non Battlefront relevant comment inside of a specialised forum and it is turfed out into General Discussions.

General Discussions on most forums has a code of conduct though.
Mention the spicy topics of religion and/or politics, and shortly it gets moved into the forum reserved for muck raking.

But Battlefront has not seen fit to provide a spot for non religious/politically sensitive rants.

Can't imagine why, it's just a different sub forum after all.
The posts in one, would not co mingle with the others.
Some would venture into one and not the other, and a few might indulge both.
But I can't fathom a reason they have flatly refused this notion.
I left when I mentioned it, and was told off in unfriendly terms.

But Riverbravo, lets cease with the out and out remarks to the effect to sponsor pirating wargames. It's not even funny as an obvious jest.
If a mod hasn't warned you in private, then they should.




riverbravo -> (8/5/2003 9:24:25 AM)

Just for you les I edited it out.

Dont wanna give anyone any ideas.




riverbravo -> (8/5/2003 10:01:35 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1 [/i

But Riverbravo, lets cease with the out and out remarks to the effect to sponsor pirating wargames. It's not even funny as an obvious jest.
If a mod hasn't warned you in private, then they should. [/B][/QUOTE]

I often forget the forums or the internet isnt excactly all public property to scream what you like.

I thought the matrix forums were strict compared to the old GIC boards and the CC wars that erupted.

I understand the forums are privately owned and run and have the right to ban,lockup,delete or any other thing they choose to do to subjects they dont like.

The Matrix forums I have found are pretty easy going and let you speak freely without the use of foul language or really insulting anyone.

OK I know Matrix makes KP so I read the forums,cool,well maybe the guys on the matrix boards are all partial to the matrix products.So I cruise over to another very active Forum to dig up some comments and the thread was moved or locked.when mostly positive things are being said?How does this look?

Looks like i found my birthday present....come on september.



:)




Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (8/5/2003 10:22:35 AM)

A wise person knows that when they ask for honest opinions, they sometimes get the truth they don't wish to hear.

I have been called a Matrix fanboy in the past (kinda funny I guess). I am invariably pro Matrix Games I suppose.

But I can say this, I have never held back on a game, even when on the games home turf.

Credibility is something that is even harder to restore when lost than is respect. I think Matrix Games values credibility.

I for instance have seen the work being done to fix up and improve the mess that was GIC (that's GI Combat for any not aware), soon to appear as EYSA, which some will certainly compare mightily with GIC.
And yes, I was invited to look under the hood as a person of a known hostile viewpoint, specifically because I AM a non fan of the genre.

And I gave David a report on my thoughts, and it was NOT a touch feely report either. But David wanted my thoughts and I offered them.

I am sure I was not a one shot event. I would not be surprised if Matrix Games has sounded out a lot of people independently about games in progress.

Sites that suppress negative feedback to enthusiastically, only run the risk of destroying customer loyalty through diminshed credibility.
And an occasional success won't restore my confidence in a company necessarily. That would be like saying sorry when it isn't believable.

I make my presence in General Discussions of most forums (which I think most probably already realise).

A site without a well managed healthy civilised General forum is in need of one. And if you can't discuss aaaaanyones wargames on it, then the site isn't worthy of your interest.




Wilhammer -> (8/5/2003 7:20:27 PM)

1. Again, sorry for being so ugly yesterday.

2. No KP forum has ever been locked at BTS; all game specific OT threads get moved to their GF.

3. I bought KP last night.

4. I have read the rules and stsrted on the tutorials. Everything is going OK.

5. I will be doing a bit of a review on the BTS GF.

6. One gripe so far; the game manual is adequate, but it has nowhere near the in depth coverage of the TAO2 manual. I like my wargame manuals to be extremly thorough and detailed.

For example, the PzC or ACW and others that HPS produce have exhaustive rules - I know the details of what is going on.

KP is not alone in its limited manual detail; BTS does not get under the hood with its manuals either.

Operational Level games are my preferred scale. I am an avid TOAW:COW player, and played UV to exhaustion.

I look forward to Battleline, and I hope someone does a Kanev scenario for KP. (HPS's Korsun '44 has it; it is a fun little battle)

Time to head to work...




Marc von Martial -> (8/5/2003 7:51:11 PM)

Hi,

[QUOTE]6. One gripe so far; the game manual is adequate, but it has nowhere near the in depth coverage of the TAO2 manual. I like my wargame manuals to be extremly thorough and detailed.[/QUOTE]

You mean the printed "Players Guide" or the "Manual" (that comes as PDF) ?




Wilhammer -> (8/5/2003 10:15:03 PM)

Manual.

The PDF only thing.

The TAO2 manual is all text, and a bit longer at 57 pages.

I will dig through the specifics later tonight to find detail differences.

But don't get me wrong, the Manual is grade A.

The Player's Guide is excellent, by the way. It does a great job of easing you in.

Also, I found this to be quite useful:

http://www.wargamer.com/wachtamrhein/files/KP-BeginnerStrat.pdf

This is my last post for this thread.




BrubakerII -> (8/8/2003 2:06:40 PM)

Hi Wilhammer - nice to see you around.

You can blame Marc for the manual - he designed the whole thing :eek: Shame Marc.

You will not be dissapointed with KP. It's brilliance lies in its pure simplicity and its complexity as well. There is something in there for all comers. Hope to see you on the ladders.

Brubaker




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