Game Balance Poll (Full Version)

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Harrybanana -> Game Balance Poll (8/15/2020 10:09:35 PM)

It is interesting reading the various Threads that there are so many different opinions on whether the game favours the Axis or the Allies (and if so by how much) or if it is balanced. So a quick poll, do you think playing the game in pbem as it now is (version 1.00.073 without the betas):

1.Strongly favours the Axis,
2. Moderately favours the Axis,
3. Slightly favours the Axis,
4. Is balanced,
5. Slightly favours the Allies,
6. Moderately favours the Allies, or
7. Strongly favours the Allies.

My own opinion/vote is 3.

Oh yeah, I just want your opinion/vote; save your reasons why for your own Thread.



sillyflower -> RE: Game Balance Poll (8/15/2020 10:51:25 PM)

3 with very good players, otherwise 4



battlevonwar -> RE: Game Balance Poll (8/16/2020 8:42:52 AM)

7. When played correctly of course. I have probably 20 PBEM games and never came close to losing as the Allies. The Allies got a ton of buffs and are getting more so this may be an 8.



Flaviusx -> RE: Game Balance Poll (8/16/2020 11:22:59 AM)

It's like Sillyflower says. Balance is close but not quite there at the top level, Axis still has a bit of an edge. I think the Yugo thing will just about make it even, though.



battlevonwar -> RE: Game Balance Poll (8/17/2020 12:46:44 AM)

Last Super Allied Player I faced was Almeron who stopped me cold in the East. I couldn't penetrate his Russians though I did fairly well against his French(he was the greatest French Defender I've seen)!

My Axis didn't penetrate Kiev region fully, and never made a full penetration to the marshes in the North. I had to do everything to hold Finland and subsequently was on the defensive the next year. I think I was so thoroughly whooped by his Russians, Operation Bagration was on for Summer of '42 if he wanted to do this. But since the Western Allies were prepared to smack through Germany in the West in '42. I have to say you all are doing something wrong.

I see a lot of forward defensive Russians. I am asking why? I see a lot of people worried about Greece and yet don't even try to defend or fight for it(when it gets like 200 Production to defend it)! I see all these fancy builds trying to come up with something that doesn't work. Even low XP Units entrenched, in defensive terrain, in defense in depth would really help you all out. As far as the Red Air Force it's = to the Luftwaffe in '41 and greater than in '42. Which is all very hugely ahistorical. The Red Wings tend to be the strongest AirForce till the UK/US Combine in the West.

Also lastly nobody here really goes all-in treating French Defense super IMPORTANT. People don't stack Convoy Escorts and ASW techs. They don't bleed the Germans enough pre-Barbie.

Sveint did it to me, it's a sign. And I rarely lose my Axis even though I was rusty with him. I rarely lose so thoroughly as he beat me so early. I was stretched thin. You guys have to take notes of his AAR with me and stretch the Axis thinner cause they have a thin opportunity to win.

I am a so so Allied Player and give me your best Axis Player and I will show you even being VERY rusty with the Allies what can be done.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

It's like Sillyflower says. Balance is close but not quite there at the top level, Axis still has a bit of an edge. I think the Yugo thing will just about make it even, though.




Flaviusx -> RE: Game Balance Poll (8/17/2020 12:53:28 AM)

The reason for the forward defense is to discourage April invasions. As is, you probably have to deal with a May invasion even with a forward defense.

If you just run away smart Germans are not going to let you get away with it. They will simply march in there early and often.

The Soviets cannot ride out a prolonged Barbarossa, the rail lines just get pushed forward, the infantry will catch up, and eventually you are going to run out of space to give up and they will bust it wide open.

Every early Barbarossa I have ever seen has resulted in the Soviets getting trounced.



battlevonwar -> RE: Game Balance Poll (8/17/2020 1:39:17 AM)

Flaviusx,

That the Axis can launch an early Barbarossa is a testimony that the Axis are too well prepared and too strong because the French/British didn't do anything. You have to lose 100 British Air in France. 100 Land Points if necessary perhaps even 3-4 Corp. You have to bleed those Axis so when they face the Soviets they face them anemic a bit. Sveint managed it...Almeron managed it. I have done it so thoroughly I destroyed every German Armor in France but 1 Mech to a guy.

I think I have DOWed Russia 1 time in April. You can give land if the Russians have what they should have in their arsenal. Armor/Mechs/Mnt Inf..entrenched, then move, Then entrench then move, then entrench then move? You should see what kind of '41 D-Days can be done. (forces the Axis to keep strong reinforcements West)

If you haven't knocked off 300 steps of German Prime Rib in France you need to Hotseat her till you do. Then see what May Barbarossa looks like. It doesn't look the same!



sveint -> RE: Game Balance Poll (8/17/2020 7:27:49 PM)

7. Never came close to losing as the Allies



MorningDew -> RE: Game Balance Poll (8/17/2020 9:18:42 PM)

What does losing as the Allies mean? How is it defined?



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Game Balance Poll (8/17/2020 9:43:41 PM)

Either Germany or Italy holding onto 1 hex that is a morale center AND having enough VPs.

Or conquering Europe.



michaelCLARADY -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/11/2020 5:51:15 PM)

If the Players are of near equal skill I gotta go with #6.



MagicMissile -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/12/2020 9:33:09 AM)

I think it is in the 3-6 range, not sure how useful that is [:)].

/MM



topolm -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/12/2020 11:33:50 AM)

6. Moderately favours the Allies



baloo7777 -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/12/2020 4:01:29 PM)

Against players of similar abilities, I would say #5, slightly favors the allies. Not sure what version 08 does to that due to Axis no longer getting Yugo.



ncc1701e -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/12/2020 7:46:51 PM)

I will say that:

1. a big mistake with Axis and you are doomed.
2. a big mistake with Allies, you may recover but hardly.



Jeff_Ahl -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/13/2020 1:20:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

I will say that:

1. a big mistake with Axis and you are doomed.
2. a big mistake with Allies, you may recover but hardly.


I almost agree:

1. Big mistake with Axis, extremly hard to get back on track.

2. Big misstake with Allies, quite hard to get back on track.

Given that players are equally good.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/13/2020 2:41:04 PM)

It is always harder to play the Axis than the Allies



Jeff_Ahl -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/13/2020 4:04:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

It is always harder to play the Axis than the Allies


Well, it also depends. If you get the ball rolling with the Axis magic can happen. With the Allies it is more of small gains and meat grinding.

I do not think the game needs much balancing though. As I always says; baby step with changes are one of the best thing with this game and your commitment. To many good games has turned into trash because of radical changes. Even though we all in the forum bombards you with demands and naggs about all kinds of aspects of the game.

All and all the best strategic/operational game out on the market so far.



ago1000 -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/13/2020 4:17:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff_Ahl


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

It is always harder to play the Axis than the Allies


Well, it also depends. If you get the ball rolling with the Axis magic can happen. With the Allies it is more of small gains and meat grinding.

I do not think the game needs much balancing though. As I always says; baby step with changes are one of the best thing with this game and your commitment. To many good games has turned into trash because of radical changes. Even though we all in the forum bombards you with demands and naggs about all kinds of aspects of the game.

All and all the best strategic/operational game out on the market so far.

+1 Totally agree



ncc1701e -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/13/2020 4:50:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff_Ahl

All and all the best strategic/operational game out on the market so far.


By far yes [:)]



Harrybanana -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/14/2020 4:32:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff_Ahl

All and all the best strategic/operational game out on the market so far.



Totally agree. I gripe and bitch, but I love this game.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/14/2020 1:10:44 PM)

Well then you will gripe and bitch more when WP2 comes.



MorningDew -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/14/2020 1:20:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

Well then you will gripe and bitch more when WP2 comes.


You might regret that statement:)

Obviously there are some mechanics that can be improved (hence WP2), however, I agree overall balance is good. If there needed to be an adjustment, I would suggest it could be on victory conditions, not units/resources etc. It seems that the flow can occur close to historical - WWII is always 3 games (all Axis, and balance, all Allies) and that is the flow I have experienced in PBEM games.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/14/2020 1:24:25 PM)

If no one talks = bad for a game
If people debate = good for the game

Nothing is perfect. There is no perfect game. What I like is not what you like. There are things in WP I don't like but they are in there because YOU GUYS like and you are the majority.

I just filled a missing niche in this genre.



BrutalReaper -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/15/2020 8:14:22 PM)

Everyone will complain regardless of how good a game is. I love WP and switched all my MP play over from Panzer Corps.



MagicMissile -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/20/2020 5:21:00 PM)

Changing my vote. I now think it is defintely not 3 or less lean towards 5 and range 4-6 [:)]

/MM



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/20/2020 5:44:21 PM)

I'll look at some of the AARs



Harrybanana -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/26/2020 6:04:56 AM)

Because I had nothing better to do I took a look at the 11 most recent completed AARs to see who won. Assuming that Liquidsky (Axis) lost his game to Sveint (Allies), than the Axis won 5 and the Allies 6. Of course all of these games were started prior to the latest version. But I still think it is a testament to the fact that Alvaro has done a pretty good job with game balance.



ncc1701e -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/26/2020 8:03:11 AM)

And a testament to the fact I am a pretty bad player... as Axis and as Allies...



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Game Balance Poll (9/26/2020 2:43:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

Because I had nothing better to do I took a look at the 11 most recent completed AARs to see who won. Assuming that Liquidsky (Axis) lost his game to Sveint (Allies), than the Axis won 5 and the Allies 6. Of course all of these games were started prior to the latest version. But I still think it is a testament to the fact that Alvaro has done a pretty good job with game balance.


Thanks. I plan on playing a few more games with Hadros to work out more game balance issues. We are fairly evenly matched and learning things all the time.



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