Worthless piece of crap artillery (Full Version)

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Belisarius -> Worthless piece of crap artillery (7/5/2001 4:16:00 PM)

Hi all! I might be doing something very wrong, but no matter what battles I play, I can never ever rely on my arty to even be there. It's all greyed out 90% of the time, no matter how many FO's I deploy or if it's onboard or offboard artillery. Do I have extreme bad luck, or am I missing something here? I'm sure missing not being able to have any use of the big guns. :(



Don -> (7/5/2001 4:30:00 PM)

Hmmm, when you click on the FO and then the "arty" button it's always unavailable? Have you tried the arty tutorial?



Gordon_freeman -> (7/5/2001 4:42:00 PM)

From what u discribe it sounds like u use artillery which is out of range. Do u use onboard mortars or do u also use offboard? Check the ranges, might be a hint cause i had that problem too. Also, if u let mortarteams move it t akes a time to set the mortar up, so, after moving it ain't available for inderect fire, but i guess u know that all. George



SAGrognard -> (7/5/2001 4:43:00 PM)

If you use onboard arty and put it right next to your A0 it will be available every round every time. Bear in mind that this gives the oppo both your A0 and your arty in one swell target.



Belisarius -> (7/5/2001 5:24:00 PM)

Let me explain: It's not the arty button itself that's greyed out, (yes I've played all tutorials), it's the "explosion" and "smoke" buttons that are grey. I know that it sometimes is possible to issue a strike anyway, if you're targetting the same hex as previous, but that doesn't seem to work lately. I have the same problems with both onboard AND offboard arty, so I guess ranges are not the issue. To issue orders to OffB arty you've got to have a radio link, right? I can understand that those links are a bit unreliable, but not _all_the_time_! I guess I gotta look further into it, what's the point in buying arty if you can't use it?



SAGrognard -> (7/5/2001 5:35:00 PM)

Erm, have you tried the onboard in hex next to A0? I have never had a failure to fire using this. Also note if you hold the cursor over the greyed out button you should get a tooltip help on why it wont fire



Del -> (7/5/2001 5:41:00 PM)

Shouldn't be that bad. I have some bad luck with off board being unavailable about 50% of the time but unboard is good at least 75% of the time. Maybe delete the prf file? :confused:



Warrior -> (7/5/2001 5:44:00 PM)

Despite the buttons being greyed out, click your FO, then the artillery piece you want to fire, then click a hex on the map where you want it to hit. That will often bring them back, as they then know the range, etc. I usually do that with every gun before I finish deploying for a fight, so I'll know if all my mortars are in range with the furthest victory hexes. As for the off-board stuff, sometimes they'll just be out of contact. That's a luck thing. :) If the explosion button is greyed, hold your cursor over it and it will explain why the gun can't fire. It's not always the right explanation, but it gives you an idea of what's happening. [ July 05, 2001: Message edited by: Warrior ]



panda124c -> (7/5/2001 7:15:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Belisarius: Let me explain: It's not the arty button itself that's greyed out, (yes I've played all tutorials), it's the "explosion" and "smoke" buttons that are grey. I know that it sometimes is possible to issue a strike anyway, if you're targetting the same hex as previous, but that doesn't seem to work lately. I have the same problems with both onboard AND offboard arty, so I guess ranges are not the issue. To issue orders to OffB arty you've got to have a radio link, right? I can understand that those links are a bit unreliable, but not _all_the_time_! I guess I gotta look further into it, what's the point in buying arty if you can't use it?
Check the status of your Artillary is it out of ammo, out of command, or any other funny. I had a problem where an off board unit suddenly went zero ammo. It was a crusier that had fire twice in the game. It is indeed strange that you should have no artillery. I assume you have tried the old standby of delete you steel.prf file.



Belisarius -> (7/6/2001 1:35:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by pbear: Check the status of your Artillary is it out of ammo, out of command, or any other funny. I had a problem where an off board unit suddenly went zero ammo. It was a crusier that had fire twice in the game. It is indeed strange that you should have no artillery. I assume you have tried the old standby of delete you steel.prf file.
Uh yeah. But I got the impression that the 6.0 patch deleted the .prf automatically? Thanx for the tips, guys! :) I didn't know you could get status info abt the arty. It seems that my arty runs out of ammo FAST. Even offboard. (side note: so do my AT teams. Ammo: 0 ..)



tracer -> (7/6/2001 2:07:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior: Despite the buttons being greyed out, click your FO, then the artillery piece you want to fire, then click a hex on the map where you want it to hit. That will often bring them back, as they then know the range, etc.
Ditto...I do the same everytime I open the indirect fire screen to 'reset' the hex the game is looking at. Another little bug I've noticed in 5.x that this also helps with is when I open the indirect fire screen and it shows an icon for a fire mission that has already finished...as soon as I click on any artillery unit's name (left column) these 'phantom'icons disappear.



MacCready -> (7/6/2001 5:30:00 AM)

Hi, I don't use it because troops,tanks,guns,etc should run out of ammo ,but try using the AMMO OFF setting and you'll never run out...



panda124c -> (7/6/2001 7:56:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Belisarius: Uh yeah. But I got the impression that the 6.0 patch deleted the .prf automatically? Thanx for the tips, guys! :) I didn't know you could get status info abt the arty. It seems that my arty runs out of ammo FAST. Even offboard. (side note: so do my AT teams. Ammo: 0 ..)
I have notice that my Off Board Artillery seems to run out of ammo very fast also since V6.0. I have gotten to point of buying one Off Board for counterbattery and the rest On Board with a couple of Ammo Trucks. This makes Invasions a B***h, you can run out of Off Board before your On Board lands.



Wild Bill -> (7/6/2001 10:09:00 AM)

A lot of things could be happening. 1. Could be out of range 2. Could be out of contact 3. Could be out of ammo 4. Could be observer is suppressed 5. Could be your artillery is suppressed. 6. Could be your observer has a low skill/morale rate. 7. Could be your artillery has a low skill/morale rate 8. Could be a bad steel.prf file Now here is one remedy I have discovered. Any OFFICER (usually a formation leader) can call in artillery strikes, not just an observer or an A0 unit. One many occasions if my FO or my A0 Leader cannot call the artillery, I'll use another officer, say the commander of formation B. Suddenly they are no longer gray and I can assign shots. It does work well occasionally and is a viable alternative. The same is true with spotting. One unit can't see. Another can. After that all can (within LOS). Wild Bill



Wild Bill -> (7/6/2001 10:11:00 AM)

Your sentiment, "Worthless piece of crap artillery" I am sure has been repeated on many battlefields perhaps even before you were born :D Real life commanders have said that and worse! :eek: And we won't even talk about friendly fire :rolleyes: Wild Bill



Stuart Millis -> (7/6/2001 11:33:00 AM)

Large calibre guns are expensive. They are good for short bombardments only hence the low initial ammo loadout. The smaller guns come with more ammo and are very effective for suppressive fire on infantry while not too damaging on armour. Remember this when using version 6.0 because suppression of infantry is essential before your tanks go rumbling in. If you play with Reduced Ammo set to on you will get even less ammo. In this case it may be prudent to buy onboard arty plus ammo resupply points. Or set your preferences to Limited Ammo on or Unlimited Ammo on (ugh!)



AmmoSgt -> (7/6/2001 7:31:00 PM)

I think alot of the problem with Arty is that folks know who Rommel is , but don't have a clue who Knox is .... I got documentation on Brit and US batteries and their basic loadout's on medium arty .... 105mm-155mm or their Brit equivalent... had about 96-176 rounds per gun ..but since the Allies had such a crushing advantage in arty ..especially the russians .... it would not be popular to model arty like the game does Tanks or Infantry .... besides folks don't seem to know the names of the Generals or the tactics involved , so i think it is best to just curse the darkness ... lighting candles around casions , never was wise ....



Larry Holt -> (7/6/2001 7:59:00 PM)

While we are talking artillery problems, If a platoon leader is out of contact with its higher HQ, it can't call in arty (no response to the "B" key), OK but that means it can't fire its own platoon mortar even if its stacked together!



Larry Holt -> (7/6/2001 8:05:00 PM)

A longgggg time ago, Paul explained that artillery has to have two factors to be able to fire in support: it must be in contact and also it must pass some check (simulating that it had not been "pulled" for support of some other unit, wasn't moving, etc.) OK those things happen to OTHER UNITS artillery that is firin in support. However, I often see my own on board, organic artillery greyed out and its not for lack of ammo, range, using the wrong leader, or all the other things listed here. Its as though my own artillery is controled by and is responding to the code that makes other's artillery unavailable. This seems to be a bug and not a feature.



AmmoSgt -> (7/6/2001 8:21:00 PM)

I seldom have any problems keeping my arty in contact.. it is usually in contact 75% of the time ... for details on doctrine and tactics on arty try these two web sites http://www.cavalrypilot.com/fm6-30/f630.htm http://members.tripod.com/~nigelef/id23.htm [ July 06, 2001: Message edited by: AmmoSgt ] [ July 06, 2001: Message edited by: AmmoSgt ] [ July 06, 2001: Message edited by: AmmoSgt ]



General Mayhem -> (7/6/2001 8:30:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Belisarius: Hi all! I might be doing something very wrong, but no matter what battles I play, I can never ever rely on my arty to even be there. It's all greyed out 90% of the time, no matter how many FO's I deploy or if it's onboard or offboard artillery. Do I have extreme bad luck, or am I missing something here? I'm sure missing not being able to have any use of the big guns. :(
My only problem with arty is a bug. Since 5.01(from which I started to play), choosing target using one battery/gun occasionally makes another target mark disappear. Still it looks like the other gun would have target selected by the menu, altough the mark disappears on the map. I just I played PBEM game, and there I put two 90 mm mortar to shoot adjacent hexes. As chose another hex for target, other mark on map disapparead. Looking menu however showed like the another gun would be selected despite no mark was on the map. On next turn, I noticed the gun whose mark disappread didn't have a target at all.



Paul Vebber -> (7/6/2001 9:43:00 PM)

THe disappearing mark only happens when using artillery units to spot for themselves...at least that I've seen. On the ammo quantity issue - the way it is set up, the cost of a "fire mission" is based on the number and size of the rounds. If we give the US 155 187 or what ever rounds for the price of 20 for German 150s, then who you gonna get to play teh Germans? If you want 187 rounds, then you have to buy extra fire missions, We are limited to 255 points or we could make 187 round 155 units availabl, but they would cost 2000 points... No argument here that Arty needs a complete overhaul..its going to have to wait for Combat Leader...



AmmoSgt -> (7/6/2001 10:00:00 PM)

Paul, i am not advocating for more ammo .. my point was more along the lines of, That you cannot properly model actual arty tactics given the way arty is represented in the game .. most players don't care and don't know who Knox was or why Napoleon is still significant .. it is not a put down to anyone .. just a general observation ..that folks are not as sophisticated when it comes to arty , as they are with Tanks tactics ..so there is not much player support ... Arty ammo was reduced..and lethality was raised ..thats fine ,relax .. arty can still be used effectively..and understanding that actual tactics and procedures in the above links , will help most folks who are having troubles with arty get a better grasp of what the game is abstracting and use the game arty to better effect .. Thats all i was saying .. Should be a simple enough solution to just check the number of rounds that come with the arty that you buy... when somebody says that they noticed they are running out faster in the more recent patches ..but don't know why.. I suspect they are not familar with the way arty works , is all I was saying



Paul Vebber -> (7/6/2001 10:36:00 PM)

Then we are in agreement :D Artillery will work in a very different way in Combat Leader. We are just stuck with what we have in SP:WaW...



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