(Full Version)

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific



Message

Mr.Frag -> (8/10/2003 2:46:01 AM)

Dave,

War Gaming is about being able to take something that historically happened, giving you command prior to it happening and letting you prove that if it wasn't for the bad plans, things could have been different.

If you are simply repeating the exact same mistakes, you are not actually playing the game, might as well watch the movie.

As games scale up from a tactical level towards the operational level, the ability to improve what happened historically becomes more and more dramatic.

At a tactical level, you are stuck with exactly the units on exactly the same terrain and the best you can hope to do is use manuever and firepower to alter the outcome.

As you shift up the timescale and the command level, the options expand where you now have the choice of picking the units and terrain to fight on instead of simply repeating the tactical battle.

By the time you get to a area level command (UV), you now have sufficent control to completely alter history by controlling entire compaigns.

When you move all the way up the food scale, you get into actually controlling the politics that govern when countries actually enter into the war and control technologies used (developing equipment).

Each level of wargaming has it's own set of options and ability to alter history. If you expect an operational level game like UV to play historically, you are never going to be happy, because both sides during the time period made a large number of what we consider extremely stupid mistakes that we as players have no interests in repeating.

If you think UV has problems, these will be magnified 100 times over in WitP as the Japan player not only gets more time to impose their will, but also has far more abilities to alter history.

Next thing you guys will be complaining that I don't split my 1st Airborne Paras into three groups when attacking Arnhem to ensure failure because it's not historical! Try posting that one in the AA forum and see how well it is received :p



ADavidB -> (8/10/2003 4:18:23 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr.Frag
[B]Dave,

War Gaming is about being able to take something that historically happened, giving you command prior to it happening and letting you prove that if it wasn't for the bad plans, things could have been different.

( clip )

By the time you get to a area level command (UV), you now have sufficent control to completely alter history by controlling entire compaigns.

( clip )

Each level of wargaming has it's own set of options and ability to alter history. If you expect an operational level game like UV to play historically, you are never going to be happy, because both sides during the time period made a large number of what we consider extremely stupid mistakes that we as players have no interests in repeating.

If you think UV has problems, these will be magnified 100 times over in WitP as the Japan player not only gets more time to impose their will, but also has far more abilities to alter history.

( clip )

[/B][/QUOTE]

Editing out the examples and leaving the "meat" - I actually agree with your basic premise - what you are saying is exactly what I am looking for in a historic war game ( versus say, a future sci-fi wargame, or a fantasy world war game or an alternate history war game, etc. )

My big gripe about UV is the same that I had for 10 years with Pacwar - the little ahistoric hardwired settings in the game(s) that take away from the players' abilities to "alter history".

I want to start with as close to the historical conditions and settings as possible, and then see how well ( or badly ) I and my opponent can "change history". UV comes close, but it can be improved.

Dave Baranyi

( BTW - were you ever involved in any aspect of the TRUMP program...? )



TIMJOT -> (8/10/2003 4:38:03 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike_B20
[B]Winning I don't care about really.
I'm more interested in fighting a semi-historical recreation of the struggle in the South Pacific.

If I ever play as the IJN my opponents will have an advantage, because I will never in a thousand years load everything I have into one giant invasion fleet with the idea of rushing a 'victory location' LOL

That will obviously free up their strategic options somewhat.:) [/B][/QUOTE]

Mike,

You cant have it both ways. Striping Austrailia (Brisbane) of defences and deploying most everything forward is every bit as a ahistorical as your opponent sending everything to Brisbane.

The auto victory condiitions are there to give both players a chance to win and by default keep both players honest. Historically in July 42 to vast majority of MacArthurs command was 2 US and 2 Aussie Divisions were still in Austrailia. In fact all of these divivions were available during the time of Coral sea yet the allied command felt it could only spare a little more than a reinforced brigade to defend a critical base like Port Moresby. Why? Because no matter how improbable they couldnt be sure the Japanese wouldnt strike Australia.

Let me put it this way. I as an allied player can easily send the Americal division to Lunga on turn one, stoping any IJN advance through the Solomons cold, but if the IJN player then makes an end run and sends a mega invasion to Noumea and captures it. Is it the games fault or mine?:rolleyes:



Mike_B20 -> (8/10/2003 7:02:43 AM)

I had sent one brigade from Brisbane to PM, all the rest were still in Australia.
The trouble is, the movement of troops still in Australia is seriously flawed in UV...no strategic movement possible, they have to walk everywhere.

I've already admitted that the mistake was mine for moving more than one or two brigades out of Brisbane...no need to continue harping on that point Mr Frag.



gus -> Sorry Mike B20 ... (8/10/2003 7:08:39 AM)

... but the problem here is not with UV but with your defense. If the Japanese player is operating in the Coral Sea at the very least you are obligated to shadow his every move so that you can be prepared for the possibility of an end run as happened in your game.

Like most great games, Chess immediately come to mind, you are fighting to control a central key area. In Chess this area is static i.e. the 4 central squares, in strategy/wargames it can be variable as reinforcements arrive in theater changing the balance of power and therefore the central area being contested. For the UV scenarios starting May 1942 the central key area for the first 3-6 months is arguably the Coral Sea so anytime there is a projection of power into this area the other side must react. This can be direct confrontation using naval air or surface TF's or shadowing with LBA, subs etc but the threat must be acknowledged and dealt with or you are inviting disaster.

Also you must have telgraphed your intentions for your opponent to pull an audacious stunt like this. If you move all of your airpower and available infantry to forward contested bases your opponent will have a pretty good idea of what was left behind to defend your rear areas. This is especially true when you are playing with historical reinforcements but again you should have been aware of this too.

So live and learn, when you calm down over the moral outrage you feel over this you will realize that your opponent was simply playing the cards dealt to them and that it was more a question of you overextending your position than your opponent bending the rules to their own advantage.

-g



Mr.Frag -> (8/10/2003 7:20:22 AM)

[QUOTE]no need to continue harping on that point Mr Frag.[/QUOTE]

Not picking on you Mike, I was just responding to others who wanted to blame UV's engine :D

[QUOTE]the movement of troops still in Australia is seriously flawed in UV[/QUOTE]

To counter this road effect as you might want to call it, one should keep the 3rd Division loaded up and ready to deploy at a moments notice coupled with maintaining your C-47 fleet at a base that has the 7th Division troops. The combination of the two (mass airlandings) and followup troops by sea makes you untouchable. Always keep in the back of your mind that EVERYTHING north of Townsville is disposable when you look at the state of the map. You can't go wrong if you follow this thought process. ;)



Mike_B20 -> (8/10/2003 7:32:16 AM)

Well, I don't see why we should have to invent mechanisms to get around the problem Mr Frag.
Matrix should just fix the Oz intercity(except for Cooktown) movement as overnight (which it would have been, in the event of an invasion).



Mike_B20 -> (8/10/2003 7:39:47 AM)

Gus, as I said earlier, with the current scouting limitation of 10 sightings on a taskforce, there was no way of knowing the size or composition of his taskforces, they looked pretty much like two 10 ship surface TF's.

And once again 'mea culpa' yes, I was incredibly, stupendously, unbelievably stupid, idiotic and senseless for moving more than one or two brigades out of Brisbane.

My opponent was perfectly entitled to load everything into one invasion fleet and send it wherever he wanted...but for me the game rather than a strategic simulation suddenly became more apparent.

Perhaps the developers made a deliberate decision to restict troop movements by the allies in Australia to march speed.
Allowing strategic movement for allies in Oz would have freed up many troops to be deployed elsewhere and this didn't happen historically.
I believe it didn't happen historically, not because there was any real threat of Japanese invasion but more as a result for genuine concern about the lives of soldiers sent elsewhere and bowing to the political pressures brought on by a public fear of invasion.
In reality, many soldiers based in Oz could have been usefully emplyed elsewhere, because of the reality of strategic movement.



TIMJOT -> (8/10/2003 9:58:53 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike_B20
[B]Well, I don't see why we should have to invent mechanisms to get around the problem Mr Frag.
Matrix should just fix the Oz intercity(except for Cooktown) movement as overnight (which it would have been, in the event of an invasion). [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree it should be easier to move troops in Oz. WitP will have rail movement and highways so I am guessing it wont be a problem there. It looks like you will be able to create your own UV within the WitP game editor, so the perfect UV may lie somewhere within WitP. Like Frag said, nothing is going to be fixed in UV until WitP comes out and from the looks of it WitP is going to feature all sorts of improvements over UV that should eventually be back fitted to UV.



gus -> (8/10/2003 12:26:29 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike_B20
[B] ... as I said earlier, with the current scouting limitation of 10 sightings on a taskforce, there was no way of knowing the size or composition of his taskforces, they looked pretty much like two 10 ship surface TF's.[/B][/QUOTE]

Chances are that if you see a naval combat TF loitering about in the same general area for more than 2 turns that it is at the very least accompanied by AO's, so it is worth checking out.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike_B20
[B]And once again 'mea culpa' yes, I was incredibly, stupendously, unbelievably stupid, idiotic and senseless for moving more than one or two brigades out of Brisbane.[/B][/QUOTE]

Nothing to be sorry for here, you just learned in one game what must of us have yet to learn after 15 months of playing! You are a more capable player, you will never be burned like this again, you will find that your own game is more reflective of what happened historically and god help the guy that tries to do this you in a future game ;-)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike_B20
[B]My opponent was perfectly entitled to load everything into one invasion fleet and send it wherever he wanted...but for me the game rather than a strategic simulation suddenly became more apparent.[/B][/QUOTE]

There is no wargame that I am aware of that that does not suffer from this. The overwhelming power of Allied LBA is a far more serious distortion of the historical record than the 'end run' IMO, but that is another argument that has been beaten to death by braver souls than I.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike_B20
[B]Perhaps the developers made a deliberate decision to restict troop movements by the allies in Australia to march speed.
Allowing strategic movement for allies in Oz would have freed up many troops to be deployed elsewhere and this didn't happen historically.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I have wondered about this as well but I am pretty certain that the rail/truck transport of a full division even from Rockhampton to Brisbane would take several days to complete and of course additional divisions would have to queue up dependent on the bandwidth of the track, available rolling stock and of course Japanese interdiction. It may be assumed, I suppose, that if the Japanese were bold enough to invade Australia that they would also isolate the battlefield via sabotage and direct targeting of railheads, depots and switching yards.

-g



mogami -> South Pacific in WITP (8/10/2003 12:41:59 PM)

Hi. In WITP there is a South Pacific scenario running from May 1 1942 to Jan 1 1944. Using only the maps for the area.

Then there are the full campaign games where the South Pacific can become active at any time. In WITP where the Japanese decide to conduct operations you will have an interesting situation. Reinforcments will be up to the players. (Of course Australia will have much more as the allied player can deploy the entire Australian Armed Forces where ever he feels like (within the historic limitations but since New Guinea was considered part of Australia (for milita deployments I mean) There is no reason for the Japanese to suspect any base on the east coast will be an easy target. This shifts the focus to where is rightly belongs.
Noumea (and the area around it)
Port Moresby remains a target but any Japanese effort in the SOPAC will gravitate toward cutting the line between the USA and Australia. Not occupying Australia (This is not PACWAR.
China, India, and Australia are fantasy when thought of as places Japan can conquer. Just look at the map. Then look at the Orders of Battle. Then realize this. Long before Japan could conclude any one of these adventures the USN will be pounding on the door in the Central Pacific/South Pacific.

The Japanese will need to maintain forces in areas away from South Pacific. The Australians are a formidable force. They only need (all things considered) minor USA help to conduct operations.

In UV both sides have to wait for sufficent force to arrive for their operations. In WITP you can plan and prepare for operations, move the units into the area and conduct them when ever you like. (Since you will be controlling the entire forces) So units like CV will arrive for an operation and then depart for other areas.
(I have the IJN CV conducting operations from PH on Dec 7 41, to the Indian Ocean and then to the South Pacific in a Grand tour before returning to Japan for refit in July)

With all the changes being installed the UV scenario in WITP will be fun. But the theatre in the full campaign will be everything you could want.
(No more "I send ships back to Tokyo and never get any in return"
"I ran out of minesweepers and there were no replacements"
"I never get Kitikami or Oi"
"Where can I go to get my poodle waxed?" )



Mike_B20 -> (8/10/2003 2:40:38 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gus


I have wondered about this as well but I am pretty certain that the rail/truck transport of a full division even from Rockhampton to Brisbane would take several days to complete and of course additional divisions would have to queue up dependent on the bandwidth of the track, available rolling stock and of course Japanese interdiction. It may be assumed, I suppose, that if the Japanese were bold enough to invade Australia that they would also isolate the battlefield via sabotage and direct targeting of railheads, depots and switching yards.

-g [/B][/QUOTE]

Australia had an enormous rail network, not limited to the coast and an equally enormous pool of rolling stock.
Our economy was built pretty much around primary industries and there was a lot of rolling stock to move raw materials and livestock about. (not sure the soldiers would have been too impressed being shunted about in cattle cars:D )
The roads were nowhere near as good as today of course but I'm confident that if any Jap invasion materialized the public would have more than enough in the way of motor transport to move virtually any quantity of troops to threatened locations quickly.
A division could have moved from Rockhampton to Brisbane overnight in an emergency.
I'm sure MacArthur and his staff had all this stuff pretty much worked out.



Nikademus -> (8/11/2003 3:33:41 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike_B20
[B]Australia had an enormous rail network, not limited to the coast and an equally enormous pool of rolling stock.
Our economy was built pretty much around primary industries and there was a lot of rolling stock to move raw materials and livestock about. (not sure the soldiers would have been too impressed being shunted about in cattle cars:D )
The roads were nowhere near as good as today of course but I'm confident that if any Jap invasion materialized the public would have more than enough in the way of motor transport to move virtually any quantity of troops to threatened locations quickly.
A division could have moved from Rockhampton to Brisbane overnight in an emergency.
I'm sure MacArthur and his staff had all this stuff pretty much worked out. [/B][/QUOTE]

I seriously doubt that. And even if they could, what state would the division be after such a hasty deployment? That is in reality yet another example of "game-ism", the ability (ironically, mainly
an allied one) to instantly transport units around by various means preposed and acutal (the preposed being this "overnite" example, the actual being various FT and airlift options)

Moving a large body of soldiers quickly involves alot of preperation, not to mention red tape in some instances. While i think Australian units could be moved fairly quickly, i seriously doubt it would be "overnite" first off one would have to confirm what the hell is going on, then the various org. heads would have to issue orders too units that would be moved. Those units then have to be gathered, organized, loaded and moved out.

Once they get to the destination they need to debark, organize, establish C3 and then go into battle.

Such actions would certainly take more than 24 hours. if it was so easy, then armies would not have to "think ahead" and plan for possible contingencies. I've never read of MacArthur having some magic plan that would instantly teleport a whole division to a hotspot on the Aussie east coast. Instead, as Mogami related way back......the Allied commanders were forced to keep back large assets to defend vital points.

If the player disregards such a basic requirement and hopes the game engine will allow them to cover up such a weakness by instantly transporting an entire division, ready to fight, to a city up to several hundred miles away.....then thats an engine thats flawed. At the very least such a division would have much disruption reducing it's effectiveness.



Mike_B20 -> (8/11/2003 7:15:15 PM)

After reading reports of what happened to survivors of other bases captured by the Japs there is no doubt in my mind that whatever needed to be done to move troops to a Jap invasion on the Australian mainland would have been instantaneously commandeered by the army or volunteered by the public.

Strategic movement over well developed transportation networks isn't gaminess it's a reality.
Sure the troops would have been disorganized initially, but they'd have been there.

Prior to Midway, the Japanes military leaders discussed what their strategy would be.
The navy wanted to invade Australia but the army thought this unrealistic and a logistical nightmare.
Most of what I've read by historical analysts seems to back the Japanese army view.
The final aims of the Japanenese leaders was to try and drive a wedge into the supply lines between US and OZ by capturing the Solomons, Samoa, Fiji.
Anything else was thought too ambitious and not achievable.

After Midway, they contented themselves with trying for the Solomons.

Their whole strategy was to obtain a defensible perimeter and hope the allies tired of the war and sued for peace.

I don't understand gamers insistence in doing in their games what the Jap commanders themselves thought unrealistic.
This demand for unrealistic goals causes developers like Matrix to exagerate what the Japanese could realistically achieve and produce distorted historical simulations.



TIMJOT -> (8/11/2003 10:18:30 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike_B20
[B]

I don't understand gamers insistence in doing in their games what the Jap commanders themselves thought unrealistic.
This demand for unrealistic goals causes developers like Matrix to exagerate what the Japanese could realistically achieve and produce distorted historical simulations. [/B][/QUOTE]

Mike,

Do you know how many in the IJN staff thought the Pearl Harbor attack was unrealistic?

The point is the IJN did consider invadeing Australia and the allied command had to consider the threat (real or imagined). To do otherwise would "exagerate what the ALLIES could realistically achieve and produce distostorted historical simulation" .

In other words if there is no threat to Australia what would keep the allied player from unrealistically deploying there troops elsewhere. Its really no different than mechanisms designed to keep the majority of IJA troops tied down in China.

BTW, whereas conquering Australia was beyond the Japan's capability "INVADING" it was not.



mogami -> West Coast USA (8/11/2003 10:47:37 PM)

Hi, The USA maintained strong forces on the West Coast out of fear of Japanese Invasion. (we know how silly that was)
On Dec 8th 1941 people were convinced Japan was landing on Hawaii. (LOL)
Australians (well the Ladies) thought the Japanese were coming.

Since we know the Japanese only have xxx number of ground units large enough to attempt such landings we do not fear them to the extent they were feared during WW2.

I'm conducting feasablity studies for grabbing Darwin. I don't indend to maintain a Japanese force there. I only want to deny it to the Allies as a submarine base (long range bomber base) as long as possible to protect my transports in SRA.
The major proabition against such a scheme is not "It can't be done" but the impact on other operations (There are only so many Land Units) What do I forfeit in order to capture Darwin?
Are there other allied bases that are more important?
Will the capture of Darwin produce favorable conditions else where? (by drawing Allied resources there and away from other areas)
I don't care how silly it might have been in WW2. In WITP the Japanese player has the means to change objectives. It carries a cost and has an impact. Is it worth it? (Thats the question)

The Allied player also has this ability. To send forces to areas other then where they were actually sent. There are however no magic tricks that win the war for Japan or Allies without a fight.

I can't wait for the first numbskull playing WITP to try the Pearl Harbor "Bums Rush" Sending the entire IJN to Pearl on turn one along with every land unit he can carry. (Just wait, someone will try it for real one day)(Japan will surrender the game on or about 11 Dec 41)



Mr.Frag -> (8/11/2003 11:58:18 PM)

[QUOTE]I can't wait for the first numbskull playing WITP to try the Pearl Harbor "Bums Rush" Sending the entire IJN to Pearl on turn one along with every land unit he can carry.[/QUOTE]

Allow me to be the first to go for West Coast of USA :D

Why waste time with PH which can simply be bypassed? :eek:



mogami -> The Bums Rush to PH (8/12/2003 12:09:31 AM)

Hi, Of course the major problem with this is, even if Japan captures PH they still have the problem of the SRA being under allied control and the units supposed to capture it are instead capturing a base in the central pacific. A base that does not have enough supply to maintain Japan.

I'll do San Francisco, LA and SD next (Should I also land in Seattle?)

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/07/41

Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 23
A6M2 Zero x 82
D3A Val x 126
B5N Kate x 162

Allied aircraft
P-26A x 4
P-36A Mohawk x 2
P-40B Tomahawk x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 1 damaged
D3A Val x 12 destroyed
D3A Val x 42 damaged
B5N Kate x 6 destroyed
B5N Kate x 37 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-26A x 7 destroyed
P-26A x 1 damaged
P-36A Mohawk x 16 destroyed
P-36A Mohawk x 4 damaged
P-40B Tomahawk x 30 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk x 9 damaged
PBY Catalina x 20 destroyed
PBY Catalina x 8 damaged
A-20B Boston x 5 destroyed
A-20B Boston x 3 damaged
B-18A Bolo x 8 destroyed
B-18A Bolo x 4 damaged
B-17C Fortress x 5 destroyed
B-17C Fortress x 8 damaged

PO1 F.Endo of AII-1 Daitai is credited with kill number 2

Allied Ships
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 13, on fire, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Reid, Bomb hits 1, on fire
PT PT-20, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1
DD Henley, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Schley, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Airbase hits 48
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 156

Attacking Level Bombers:
26 x B5N Kate at 5000 feet
27 x B5N Kate at 5000 feet
16 x B5N Kate at 200 feet
26 x B5N Kate at 5000 feet
27 x B5N Kate at 5000 feet
17 x B5N Kate at 5000 feet
11 x B5N Kate at 200 feet
6 x B5N Kate at 5000 feet


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 36

Allied aircraft
P-26A x 2
P-36A Mohawk x 5
P-40B Tomahawk x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 2 destroyed
A6M2 Zero x 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Tomahawk x 2 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk x 2 damaged

PO1 F.Endo of AII-1 Daitai is credited with kill number 3


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 111,70

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 7

Allied aircraft
P-36A Mohawk x 11
P-40B Tomahawk x 36
B-18A Bolo x 6
A-20B Boston x 3
B-17C Fortress x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A5M4 Claude x 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-18A Bolo x 1 destroyed
B-18A Bolo x 3 damaged
A-20B Boston x 1 damaged
B-17C Fortress x 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVL Zuiho
CS Chiyoda

Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x B-17C Fortress at 6000 feet
2 x B-18A Bolo at 6000 feet
3 x A-20B Boston at 6000 feet
3 x B-18A Bolo at 6000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near French Frigate Shoal at 104,68


Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 8
SBD Dauntless x 18


Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless x 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
ML Tsugaru
ML Okinoshima
DD Yunagi
ML Tokiwa


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68


Allied aircraft
B-18A Bolo x 3


Allied aircraft losses
B-18A Bolo x 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
DD Minazuki

Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x B-18A Bolo at 6000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68


Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 6
B-18A Bolo x 6


Allied aircraft losses
B-18A Bolo x 8 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Ise
BB Yamashiro

Attacking Level Bombers:
2 x B-18A Bolo at 6000 feet
4 x B-18A Bolo at 6000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
CL Sendai
DD Fubuki
DD Shinonome
DD Usugumo
DD Shirakumo
DD Isonami
DD Shirayuki
DD Hatsuyuki
DD Murakumo
DD Uranami
DD Shikinami
DD Ayanami
DD Asagiri
DD Yugiri
DD Amagiri

Allied Ships
PT PT-21
PT PT-22
PT PT-23, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
PT PT-24, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
PT PT-25
PT PT-26, Shell hits 4, and is sunk


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
CL Sendai
DD Fubuki
DD Shinonome
DD Usugumo
DD Shirakumo
DD Isonami
DD Shirayuki
DD Hatsuyuki
DD Murakumo
DD Uranami
DD Shikinami
DD Ayanami
DD Asagiri
DD Yugiri
DD Amagiri

Allied Ships
PT PT-27
PT PT-28, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
PT PT-29
PT PT-30
PT PT-42, Shell hits 4, and is sunk


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
CL Sendai, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Fubuki, Shell hits 2
DD Shinonome
DD Usugumo, Shell hits 4
DD Shirakumo
DD Isonami, Shell hits 1
DD Shirayuki
DD Hatsuyuki
DD Murakumo
DD Uranami
DD Shikinami
DD Ayanami
DD Asagiri
DD Yugiri
DD Amagiri

Allied Ships
PT PT-21
PT PT-22
PT PT-23, and is sunk
PT PT-25, Shell hits 6, and is sunk


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
CL Sendai, on fire
DD Fubuki
DD Shinonome
DD Usugumo
DD Shirakumo
DD Isonami
DD Shirayuki
DD Hatsuyuki
DD Murakumo
DD Uranami
DD Shikinami
DD Ayanami
DD Asagiri
DD Yugiri
DD Amagiri

Allied Ships
PT PT-27
PT PT-29
PT PT-30, Shell hits 2, and is sunk


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
CL Sendai, on fire
DD Fubuki
DD Shinonome
DD Usugumo
DD Shirakumo
DD Isonami
DD Shirayuki
DD Hatsuyuki
DD Murakumo
DD Uranami
DD Shikinami
DD Ayanami
DD Asagiri
DD Yugiri
DD Amagiri

Allied Ships
PT PT-21, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
PT PT-22, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
CL Sendai, on fire
DD Fubuki
DD Shinonome
DD Usugumo
DD Shirakumo
DD Isonami
DD Shirayuki
DD Hatsuyuki
DD Murakumo
DD Uranami
DD Shikinami
DD Ayanami
DD Asagiri
DD Yugiri
DD Amagiri

Allied Ships
PT PT-27, Shell hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
PT PT-29, Shell hits 1, and is sunk


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
CL Sendai, on fire
DD Fubuki
DD Shinonome
DD Usugumo
DD Shirakumo
DD Isonami
DD Shirayuki
DD Hatsuyuki
DD Murakumo
DD Uranami
DD Shikinami
DD Ayanami
DD Asagiri
DD Yugiri
DD Amagiri

Allied Ships
PT PT-21, and is sunk
PT PT-22, and is sunk


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
CL Sendai, on fire
DD Fubuki
DD Shinonome
DD Usugumo
DD Shirakumo
DD Isonami
DD Shirayuki
DD Hatsuyuki
DD Murakumo
DD Uranami
DD Shikinami
DD Ayanami
DD Asagiri
DD Yugiri
DD Amagiri

Allied Ships
PT PT-27, and is sunk


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Pearl Harbor

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 37856 troops, 624 guns, 17 vehicles

Defending force 5546 troops, 61 guns, 6 vehicles


Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 34
Guns lost 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at French Frigate Shoal

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 682 troops, 8 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 68 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE French Frigate Shoal base !!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



mogami -> Bums Rush (8/12/2003 12:24:11 AM)

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/08/41

Sub attack near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
CL Kiso

Allied Ships
SS Pompano

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
AP Haguro Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Thresher

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 25

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Shell hits 13
BB Fuso, Shell hits 10
BB Yamashiro, Shell hits 17, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Ise
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 24
CL Yura, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Kinu, Shell hits 2
CL Kitakami, Shell hits 7
CL Oi, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage
DD Sawakaze, Shell hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
DD Yakaze, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Yukaze, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Wakatake, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Kuretake, Shell hits 23, and is sunk
DD Sanae, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CA Minneapolis, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Shell hits 1
CL Raleigh, Shell hits 4
CL St. Louis
CL Honolulu, Shell hits 18, on fire
DD Bagley
DD Blue, Shell hits 1
DD Helm
DD Mugford
DD Ralph Talbot, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Patterson, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Tucker
DD Cassin
DD Selfridge
DD Phelps


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
DD Fubuki, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Shinonome, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Usugumo, Shell hits 5
DD Shirakumo, Shell hits 7, on fire, heavy damage
DD Isonami, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Shirayuki, Shell hits 7, on fire
DD Hatsuyuki, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Murakumo, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
DD Uranami, Shell hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
DD Shikinami, Shell hits 1
DD Ayanami, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
DD Asagiri, Shell hits 44, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Yugiri, Shell hits 1
DD Amagiri, Shell hits 2

Allied Ships
CA Minneapolis, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Shell hits 2
CL Raleigh
CL St. Louis
CL Honolulu, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Bagley
DD Blue, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Helm
DD Mugford, Shell hits 1
DD Ralph Talbot, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Patterson, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Tucker
DD Cassin
DD Selfridge
DD Phelps


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
CA Maya
CA Ashigara
CL Natori
CL Kuma
DD Yamagumo
DD Satsuki
DD Fumizuki
DD Nagatsuki
DD Asakaze
DD Harukaze
DD Hatakaze
DD Chidori
DD Manazuru
DD Hatsukari

Allied Ships
PG Sacramento
PC Reliance, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
PC Tiger
AK Mauna Loa
AP U.S. Grant, Shell hits 64, and is sunk
AK Mercury, Shell hits 38, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
CA Maya
CA Ashigara
CL Natori, Shell hits 1
CL Kuma, Shell hits 6, on fire
DD Yamagumo
DD Satsuki, Shell hits 1
DD Fumizuki
DD Nagatsuki, Shell hits 1
DD Asakaze
DD Harukaze, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Hatakaze
DD Chidori, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Manazuru, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Hatsukari, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
CA Minneapolis, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco
CL Raleigh
CL St. Louis
CL Honolulu, on fire, heavy damage
DD Bagley, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Blue, on fire
DD Helm
DD Mugford
DD Ralph Talbot, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Patterson, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD Tucker
DD Cassin
DD Selfridge
DD Phelps


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
TK Ken'yo Maru

Allied Ships
SS Thresher


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
CA Suzuya, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Allied Ships
SS Pollack



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 69
B5N Kate x 89

Allied aircraft
P-26A x 5
P-36A Mohawk x 7
P-40B Tomahawk x 37

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 13 destroyed
D3A Val x 26 damaged
B5N Kate x 30 destroyed
B5N Kate x 51 damaged


FO U.Andrews of 18th FG is credited with kill number 4

Allied Ships
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD Helm
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Selfridge


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 42
B5N Kate x 24

Allied aircraft
P-26A x 5
P-40B Tomahawk x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 1 destroyed
D3A Val x 7 damaged
B5N Kate x 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Tomahawk x 1 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Mauna Loa, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
PG Sacramento, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
PC Tiger



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 111,70

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 7

Allied aircraft
P-36A Mohawk x 6
P-40B Tomahawk x 23
B-18A Bolo x 3
A-20B Boston x 3
B-17C Fortress x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A5M4 Claude x 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-36A Mohawk x 1 damaged
B-18A Bolo x 1 destroyed
B-18A Bolo x 1 damaged
A-20B Boston x 2 damaged
B-17C Fortress x 3 damaged

FO R.Rutins of 18th FG is credited with kill number 2

Japanese Ships
CVL Ryujo
CVL Zuiho
CVE Hosho

Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x B-17C Fortress at 6000 feet
2 x B-18A Bolo at 6000 feet
3 x A-20B Boston at 6000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Lahaina at 113,69


Allied aircraft
P-36A Mohawk x 3
P-40B Tomahawk x 9
B-18A Bolo x 3


Allied aircraft losses
B-18A Bolo x 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
DD Sagiri

Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x B-18A Bolo at 6000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 14
A6M2 Zero x 64
D3A Val x 74
B5N Kate x 88

Allied aircraft
P-26A x 2
P-36A Mohawk x 6
P-40B Tomahawk x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 1 destroyed
D3A Val x 7 damaged
B5N Kate x 2 destroyed
B5N Kate x 13 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-26A x 2 destroyed
P-36A Mohawk x 1 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk x 1 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk x 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 7, on fire, heavy damage
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD Ralph Talbot, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Tucker, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Bagley
DD Helm
DD Phelps, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Mugford, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Cassin

Ground combat at Pearl Harbor

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 43819 troops, 708 guns, 37 vehicles

Defending force 92984 troops, 895 guns, 33 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 0)


Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 182

Allied ground losses:
Men lost 39


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think I will be able to land enough troops. so far 4 DD and 6 MSW sunk. (PH has 8inch CD)



mogami -> Bums Rush (8/12/2003 12:44:57 AM)

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/09/41

Sub attack near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
DD Nokaze
DD Namikaze
DD Numakaze

Allied Ships
SS Plunger


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
CA Mogami, Shell hits 1
CA Mikuma, Shell hits 7, on fire
CA Kumano, Shell hits 2
CA Aoba, Shell hits 2
CA Kinugasa, Shell hits 8, on fire
CA Kako
CL Tama
CL Kiso, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1
DD Maikaze
DD Yugiri, Shell hits 7, on fire
DD Oboro
DD Sazanami, Shell hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
DD Ushio
DD Yuzuki

Allied Ships
CA New Orleans, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Helena, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Blue, Shell hits 17, and is sunk
DD Helm, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Jarvis, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Cummings, Shell hits 1
DD Case, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Shaw, Shell hits 1
DD Downes, Shell hits 1
DD Balch, Shell hits 1
DD Dewey, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD MacDonough, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Dale, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
CA Mogami, Shell hits 2
CA Mikuma, on fire
CA Kumano
CA Aoba, Shell hits 5
CA Kinugasa, on fire, heavy damage
CA Kako
CL Tama, Shell hits 1
CL Kiso, Shell hits 2
DD Maikaze, Shell hits 1
DD Yugiri, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Oboro
DD Sazanami, on fire, heavy damage
DD Ushio
DD Yuzuki

Allied Ships
CA Indianapolis, Shell hits 13, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
DD Balch
DMS Southard, Shell hits 18, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DMS Hopkins, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DMS Dorsey, Shell hits 20, on fire, heavy damage
DMS Long, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
CA Mogami
CA Mikuma, Shell hits 1, on fire
CA Kumano
CA Aoba
CA Kinugasa, on fire, heavy damage
CA Kako
CL Tama, Shell hits 1
CL Kiso, Shell hits 1
DD Maikaze
DD Yugiri, on fire
DD Oboro
DD Sazanami, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD Ushio
DD Yuzuki

Allied Ships
CA New Orleans, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Helena, on fire
DD Jarvis, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
DD Cummings
DD Case, on fire
DD Shaw
DD Downes
DD Balch
DD Dewey, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD MacDonough, on fire, heavy damage
DD Dale, and is sunk


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
DD Kamikaze
DD Okikaze
DD Nokaze
DD Namikaze
DD Numakaze

Allied Ships
PC Tiger, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AK Mauna Loa, Shell hits 5, and is sunk


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
DD Kamikaze
DD Okikaze
DD Nokaze
DD Namikaze
DD Numakaze

Allied Ships
DMS Trevor, Shell hits 95, and is sunk


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
DD Kamikaze
DD Okikaze
DD Nokaze
DD Namikaze
DD Numakaze

Allied Ships
DMS Dorsey, Shell hits 3, and is sunk


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
DD Kamikaze
DD Okikaze
DD Nokaze
DD Namikaze
DD Numakaze

Allied Ships
CA New Orleans, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Helena, on fire
DD Jarvis, and is sunk
DD Cummings
DD Case, on fire
DD Shaw, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Downes
DD Dewey, on fire, heavy damage
DD MacDonough, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
AP Shozan Maru, on fire

Allied Ships
SS Plunger


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
DD Hokaze

Allied Ships
SS Pollack

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near French Frigate Shoal at 104,68


Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 6
F4F-4 Wildcat x 12
SBD Dauntless x 68


Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless x 1 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 9 damaged

Japanese Ships
DD Asanagi, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
ML Tokiwa, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
ML Tsugaru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
ML Okinoshima, Bomb hits 7, on fire, heavy damage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Lahaina at 113,69


Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 17
B-17C Fortress x 8


Allied aircraft losses
B-17C Fortress x 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
DD Mochizuki
CL Tatsuta

Attacking Level Bombers:
4 x B-17C Fortress at 7000 feet
4 x B-17C Fortress at 7000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68


Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 3
B-17C Fortress x 6


Allied aircraft losses
B-17C Fortress x 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
DD Yamagumo
CL Natori

Attacking Level Bombers:
2 x B-17C Fortress at 7000 feet
4 x B-17C Fortress at 7000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 115,68

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 53
B5N Kate x 77

Allied aircraft
P-36A Mohawk x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 2 destroyed
D3A Val x 13 damaged
B5N Kate x 2 destroyed
B5N Kate x 6 damaged


Allied Ships
DD Alwin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Antares
DD Chew, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Neosho
DD Conyngham
DD Allen, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DMS Lamberton
DD Cassin
AK Alchiba, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DMS Chandler
DD Litchfield
DD Selfridge
DD Hull
DD Monaghan
DD Farragut
AK Laida
DD Ward


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 115,68

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 4
B5N Kate x 4

Allied aircraft
P-36A Mohawk x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 1 damaged


Allied Ships
DD Worden, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Farragut


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 115,68

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 24

Allied aircraft
P-36A Mohawk x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 2 destroyed
D3A Val x 3 damaged


Allied Ships
AK Antares, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Hirondelle, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Ward, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DMS Hovey
DD Conyngham


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 115,68

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 15
B5N Kate x 20

Allied aircraft
P-36A Mohawk x 1

no losses

no losses

Allied Ships
DD Worden, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Ward, on fire
DMS Lamberton, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Selfridge, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Alwin, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Litchfield
DD Monaghan



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 107,65


Allied aircraft
B-17C Fortress x 6


Allied aircraft losses
B-17C Fortress x 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Kako
CA Kumano

Attacking Level Bombers:
2 x B-17C Fortress at 7000 feet
4 x B-17C Fortress at 7000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 111,68


Allied aircraft
P-36A Mohawk x 4
P-40B Tomahawk x 27
A-20B Boston x 3
B-17C Fortress x 3


Allied aircraft losses
A-20B Boston x 1 destroyed
A-20B Boston x 1 damaged
B-17C Fortress x 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga

Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x B-17C Fortress at 6000 feet
2 x A-20B Boston at 6000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68


Allied aircraft
B-17C Fortress x 3


Allied aircraft losses
B-17C Fortress x 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Kisaragi Maru

Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x B-17C Fortress at 7000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 114,68

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 14

Allied aircraft
P-36A Mohawk x 2
P-40B Tomahawk x 2

no losses

no losses

Allied Ships
MSW Vireo, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 66
D3A Val x 6

Allied aircraft
P-26A x 2
P-40B Tomahawk x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 3 destroyed
D3A Val x 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-26A x 1 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk x 1 destroyed

LCDR V.Kamihira of BII-1 Daitai is credited with kill number 2

Allied Ships
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Helena


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 115,68

Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 10

no losses

Allied Ships
AK Antares, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DMS Lamberton, on fire, heavy damage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 115,68

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 47
B5N Kate x 79

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 1 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Monaghan
AK Alchiba, on fire
DD Cassin
AK Laida
DD Litchfield
DD Farragut, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Conyngham
DD Chew, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Selfridge, on fire
DMS Boggs, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DMS Hovey
DD Ward, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Hull
DMS Chandler


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68


1LT D.Gray of 78th FS is credited with kill number 4
Japanese Ships
CA Maya, Shell hits 2
CA Ashigara, Shell hits 6
CL Natori, Shell hits 1
DD Yamagumo, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Satsuki, Shell hits 2
DD Fumizuki, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Nagatsuki
DD Asakaze, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
DD Hatakaze, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Manazuru

Allied Ships
CA New Orleans, Shell hits 15, and is sunk
CL Helena, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Cummings, Shell hits 20, and is sunk
DD Case, Shell hits 11, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Shaw, Shell hits 15, and is sunk
DD Downes, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD Dewey, Shell hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD MacDonough, and is sunk


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Lahaina (I need a size 3 port there are many damaged ships that need
a port right away)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 19713 troops, 175 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 1370 troops, 14 guns, 6 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 103 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Lahaina base !!!


Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 31

Allied ground losses:
Men lost 1053
Guns lost 3


Ground combat at Pearl Harbor

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 138579 troops, 1648 guns, 53 vehicles

Defending force 56299 troops, 752 guns, 49 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 4

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 4)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 1


Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 192
Vehicles lost 1

Allied ground losses:
Men lost 1257
Guns lost 6


Ground combat at Pearl Harbor

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 42222 troops, 703 guns, 37 vehicles

Defending force 138413 troops, 1648 guns, 52 vehicles


Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 285
Guns lost 1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Nikademus -> (8/12/2003 12:53:25 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr.Frag
[B]Allow me to be the first to go for West Coast of USA :D

Why waste time with PH which can simply be bypassed? :eek: [/B][/QUOTE]

I want to take Seattle for obvious reasons :D

It would be a hoot, fuel reserves? we don need no stinkin fuel reserves!!!!! :p



mogami -> Bums Rush PH (8/12/2003 2:11:01 AM)

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/10/41

Sub attack near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
MSW Hakata Maru #7

Allied Ships
SS Pompano

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
AP Nikki Maru, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Thresher

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
CA Maya
CA Ashigara
CL Natori
DD Yugumo
DD Nowaki
DD Arashi
DD Akebono
DD Nagatsuki
DD Kamikaze
DD Okikaze
DD Hokaze
DD Nokaze
DD Namikaze
DD Numakaze

Allied Ships
DD Chew, Shell hits 47, and is sunk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato
BB Ise

Allied Ships
SS Pollack

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
AP Tohuku Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Pollack



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 111,72

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 6

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 12
SBD Dauntless x 33

Japanese aircraft losses
A5M4 Claude x 1 destroyed
A5M4 Claude x 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless x 4 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 20 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVE Hosho, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CVL Zuiho, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CVL Ryujo


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 109,70

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 14
B5N Kate x 23

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate x 12 destroyed
B5N Kate x 14 damaged


Allied Ships
DD Ellet, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 109,70

Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate x 3 destroyed
B5N Kate x 2 damaged

Allied Ships
CV Enterprise
CA Salt Lake City, Torpedo hits 1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 111,72

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 4

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 9
SBD Dauntless x 32
TBD Devastator x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
A5M4 Claude x 1 destroyed
A5M4 Claude x 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless x 1 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 20 damaged
TBD Devastator x 1 destroyed
TBD Devastator x 6 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVE Hosho, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CA Haguro
CVL Zuiho, Torpedo hits 1, on fire


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 111,72

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 1

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 11
SBD Dauntless x 12

no losses

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless x 15 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Nachi
CVL Ryujo


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 111,72

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 1

Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 21
B-17C Fortress x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
A5M4 Claude x 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-17C Fortress x 4 damaged

FO I.Lindsay of 18th FG is credited with kill number 3

Japanese Ships
CVL Zuiho, on fire
CVE Hosho, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Attacking Level Bombers:
2 x B-17C Fortress at 8000 feet
4 x B-17C Fortress at 8000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 111,67


Allied aircraft
P-36A Mohawk x 6
P-40B Tomahawk x 3
B-17C Fortress x 3


no losses

Japanese Ships
AK Yosida Maru #3, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x B-17C Fortress at 8000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
AP Hawaii Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Allied Ships
SS Thresher

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
BB Ise

Allied Ships
SS Thresher

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Pearl Harbor

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 155352 troops, 2066 guns, 52 vehicles

Defending force 54579 troops, 745 guns, 49 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 9 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Pearl Harbor base !!!


Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 412

Allied ground losses:
Men lost 56791
Guns lost 679
Vehicles lost 37



Hurrah. Now what? Almost every ship involved is damaged. I have 150k troops on PH For the rest of the Pacific I have 3 Div and 3 Bde.



Damien Thorn -> (8/12/2003 3:41:59 AM)

So how many airplanes did you wipe out on the ground?



mogami -> AC (8/12/2003 4:07:25 AM)

Hi 233 last turn 361 over all (This includes Singapore and Clark Field)

I can't imagine a more total disaster for the USN Pacific Fleet (unless of course the AI loses the CV as well)

8 BB
4 CA
5 CL
many repair/tender ships


However the Japanese have over 100 heavy damaged ships.
All the CV aircrew have been shot up
and 150k troops are sitting on PH where they will consume all the supply in a matter of days. It will take months to retreive all the troops and damaged ships.

Would this win the war? Or is this Great Victory actually the end of the Empire? (Where will Japan get her resources and oil now?

Japan has a host of SNLF however the allies have a large fleet in the SRA If the Allies shift forces from PI to hold places like Kendari.............



TIMJOT -> (8/12/2003 4:18:02 AM)

Mogami

From the looks of it, the ground combat hasnt changed much from UV, its basically a straight 2-1 numbers game. I know, I know its only ALPHA, but I just dont see how the UV ground combat system is going to work well enough for a game like WitP.

Have you come across anything different about the ground combat system in WitP. Any insite would be appreciated.



mogami -> Ground Combat (8/12/2003 4:29:39 AM)

Hi, I don't want to blab anything I'm not supposed to. But I will say Ground Combat is currently being looked at closely.



mogami -> Ground Combat (8/12/2003 4:29:39 AM)

Double post.



gus -> Re: Bums Rush PH (8/12/2003 4:30:33 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mogami
[B]AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/10/41
Hurrah. Now what? Almost every ship involved is damaged. I have 150k troops on PH For the rest of the Pacific I have 3 Div and 3 Bde. [/B][/QUOTE]

In game terms I agree with you that taking PH would accomplish very little except stroking one's ego, however IRL I have always wondered what the effect would have been to the mainland USA if they had actually pulled a stunt like this off. The surprise attack at PH had a tremendous impact on the general population so I can only imagine what would have occurred if the Hawaiian Islands had been seized. I am sure the military brass would have maintained an even strain in its aftermath but the panic on the west coast could be quite severe and I could easily see politicians demanding that no troops be sent overseas until we were absolutely sure that the mainland was safe.

At the very least it would throw off the historical time table by several months at the least and possibly buy the Japanese some much need time to recover their losses and then resume their push into the SRA.

Far fetched I know but so is taking HI ;-)

-g



mogami -> Bums Rush (8/12/2003 5:34:28 AM)

Hi, I think it was entirely possible for the Japanese to take PH in 1941.
The problems are

A: It does not solve Japans resource problem
B: It requires a huge commitment.
C: The IJN suffers greatly
(In my little test after 3 days of war I have
3 BB
7 CA
4 CL
2 CVL
1 CVE
20+ DD
damaged to where they can not be used in further ops (and many will not survive)

almost 100 AP damaged (every turn a few more sink)

And there still exists a large hostile surface force in the SRA/Indian Ocean
Enemy surface forces exist in the South Pacific

On a positive note South Pac and the West Coast are very far apart.

Japan must maintain a large force on PH in order to retain it. However the supply demand will be impossible to maintain.
A large surface force must now always be held around PH.
(It's going to be an ASW nightmare)

During Beta I'll reopen this case to see what occurs between Dec 41 and May 42

First turn movement changes might result in a delay before transports arrive compared to this Alpha test.

Although I think it was possible I think there exist excellent reasons for the Japanese not undertaking it. (The SRA must have priority)

The war would have been very different. It might have also been much shorter. Depending on what happens in SRA



Mr.Frag -> (8/12/2003 6:55:56 AM)

While you don't really see the logic, you are also not one of the folks that overcommits troops to the front lines where they can be isolated and demolished with little to no risk to Japan. ;)

Having watched the forum over the past 8 months, you seem to be in the minority as far as this pretty much standard play style goes. I like the fact that not only do you pull all your troops back to defend, but you also strip all fuel and supplies from these forward lost causes, leaving absolutely nothing behind for the poor guy playing you to use as an advantage.

It will be interesting to see just how silly some WitP games are going to get with rear area bases being stripped of troops to push an aggressive USA position. Most folks still haven't gotten the concept that this (and UV) are naval games. If it happens to border on water, there is no such thing as a rear area base.

I don't really fault people as to their playstyle, it really is an issue of having to wait 2-4 months as the Allies to be able to have fun! :D



Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
2.203125