retreat mechanics (Full Version)

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boldairade -> retreat mechanics (9/21/2020 8:34:15 PM)

i can't for the life of me figure this out.

i always try to leave an open hex within two spaces of front line defensive units, and i never use the hold command unless my back is to the wall.

yet i keep having full strength, 30 point corps shatter after losing 3-4 steps, resulting in a 26 point loss/loss of the formation.

what am i doing wrong?



boldairade -> RE: retreat mechanics (9/21/2020 8:37:40 PM)

i also think it is one of warplan's few weak points that you have to leave hexs open to facilitate retreat. it makes zero sense and it is very gamey.

i understand the stacking rules. but the idea that you can't retreat because there are fresh friendly troops behind you is insane. if anything, having troops behind you would facilitate an orderly withdrawl.

formations shattering because there are friendly units in proximity, as well as the need to leave hexes actively open, simply doesn't make any sense.

and obviously, it doesn't help my opinion that i can't seem to figure out intuitively which hexes need to be left open to prevent units simply vaporizing into thin air, even though they start the turn at 30 steps and 103% readiness, even if it's only two attacks.



magic87966 -> RE: retreat mechanics (9/22/2020 12:23:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: boldairade

i also think it is one of warplan's few weak points that you have to leave hexs open to facilitate retreat. it makes zero sense and it is very gamey.

i understand the stacking rules. but the idea that you can't retreat because there are fresh friendly troops behind you is insane. if anything, having troops behind you would facilitate an orderly withdrawl.

formations shattering because there are friendly units in proximity, as well as the need to leave hexes actively open, simply doesn't make any sense.

and obviously, it doesn't help my opinion that i can't seem to figure out intuitively which hexes need to be left open to prevent units simply vaporizing into thin air, even though they start the turn at 30 steps and 103% readiness, even if it's only two attacks.



+1

What might be causing it is the relative tenacity and mobility values of the Generals involved.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: retreat mechanics (9/22/2020 2:42:35 AM)

Check the log if they have 7:1 + you shatter.

Pretty simple. If you have a full size batallion of 1,000 men + logistics being and 7,000 men + tanks attacks you are shattering.

As for retreat... if unit can't retreat it shatters and goes on the queue. There has to be a limit to retreat. 2 hexes is pretty fair.



Harrybanana -> RE: retreat mechanics (9/22/2020 6:04:20 AM)

Alvaro is right, units should not shatter unless the attack odds are high or they have nowhere to retreat. So I would need more info to say why your units are shattering. Were they bombed before the attack? If so, how many times? What were the attack odds.

My own gripes with the retreat mechanics are:

1. Units that stay in the fight and refuse to retreat until they finally shatter or are destroyed. In addition to the special "Defend" order, I would like to be able to set my units to "Retreat if Attacked". Which would increase there chances of retreating.

2. The fact that units will choose to retreat 1 hex to a dangerous hex (ie one that is in the ZOC of other enemy units) rather than 2 hexes to a safe hex behind their lines. The attacker can use this to manipulate a Defending units retreat path in order to destroy it. I would prefer it if in choosing a retreat hex a unit chose the best hex regardless of whether it is 1 hex or 2 hexes away.




AlvaroSousa -> RE: retreat mechanics (9/22/2020 1:18:21 PM)

I used to have a delay tactic but it proved quite gamey.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: retreat mechanics (9/22/2020 1:21:20 PM)

There is an order to retreat but you make a good point. I will take a look at the retreat sequence see if I can adjust it some.



kennonlightfoot -> RE: retreat mechanics (9/22/2020 3:13:13 PM)

It would be nice that if a unit was forced to retreat but there were two lines behind him (which could be intentional but also could resort from other retreats taking up the hexes) that they could displace a unit one hex behind them (it retreat to clear spot). A penalty like a small loss could be attached to this but at least it wouldn't be all or nothing.

An additional order besides hold would also be nice but it sounds like you tried that and it created balance problems. Maybe and order for the HQ to disable its tenacity level. It would help the Russians but later it would help the Germans.



boldairade -> RE: retreat mechanics (9/25/2020 10:24:13 PM)

what if, if a unit had to retreat but could not due to stacking, it caused general dispersion/sent to the que(like overrun air units)

the penalty as to how much org/step losses might be linked to damage/terrain.



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