[Suggestion] More modelling of different government types would be nice! (Full Version)

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Dashwood -> [Suggestion] More modelling of different government types would be nice! (10/23/2020 7:33:29 AM)

Having a blast with the game. One thing I'd be interested in seeing Is more depth to the modelling of different government types. For example:

Fascist Dictatorships- more strats that allow for direct appropriation, and the ability to purge free folk/non capital populations for happiness gain or fast IP gain. I think it's important to model the self destructive and short half life of such governments, while also acknowledging that smashing and grabbing the good stuff can work well in the immediate short term.

Socialist States- be nice to see the abolition of private property in these states, generally I think these states should be less productive overall than others but have huge bonuses to general happiness and long term stability (assuming an "ideal" of post capital socialism, not a dictatorship masquerading as one!) Heart/Government already models this pretty well, the ability to seize the means would be great for RP purposes.

Capitalist States- would be amazing to see a boom bust cycle modelled. Is fractional reserve banking on the cards? Surely s powerful state with capitalist tendencies could move past the energy credit standard! Would be an interesting mechanic to play around, a boom of several turns in which your wealth and industry grows turn upon turn moving into a catastrophic bust in which you are vulnerable.

Cheers Vic, keep up the great work!




Dampfnudel -> RE: [Suggestion] More modelling of different government types would be nice! (10/23/2020 10:43:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dashwood

Having a blast with the game. One thing I'd be interested in seeing Is more depth to the modelling of different government types. For example:

Fascist Dictatorships- more strats that allow for direct appropriation, and the ability to purge free folk/non capital populations for happiness gain or fast IP gain. I think it's important to model the self destructive and short half life of such governments, while also acknowledging that smashing and grabbing the good stuff can work well in the immediate short term.

Socialist States- be nice to see the abolition of private property in these states, generally I think these states should be less productive overall than others but have huge bonuses to general happiness and long term stability (assuming an "ideal" of post capital socialism, not a dictatorship masquerading as one!) Heart/Government already models this pretty well, the ability to seize the means would be great for RP purposes.

Capitalist States- would be amazing to see a boom bust cycle modelled. Is fractional reserve banking on the cards? Surely s powerful state with capitalist tendencies could move past the energy credit standard! Would be an interesting mechanic to play around, a boom of several turns in which your wealth and industry grows turn upon turn moving into a catastrophic bust in which you are vulnerable.

Cheers Vic, keep up the great work!


Why would socialist regimes receive a happiness bonus? Socialism is about having zero economic freedom and rights. This does not lead to happiness. neither does economic collapse or poverty. The benefit of socialism for society is the ability to put all economic efforts into the military while being able to completely neglect the demands of the population.
So in-game it is autocracy+bureacracy/enforcement.
Fascism (at least the historical versions in Europe) is a socialist form of government. Just a xenophobic version.

The boom-bust cycle of capitalism is indeed about government actions using the central bank, but I do not see how it adds anything fun to the game. It doesn't fit here.





Dashwood -> RE: [Suggestion] More modelling of different government types would be nice! (10/23/2020 11:49:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dampfnudel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dashwood

Having a blast with the game. One thing I'd be interested in seeing Is more depth to the modelling of different government types. For example:

Fascist Dictatorships- more strats that allow for direct appropriation, and the ability to purge free folk/non capital populations for happiness gain or fast IP gain. I think it's important to model the self destructive and short half life of such governments, while also acknowledging that smashing and grabbing the good stuff can work well in the immediate short term.

Socialist States- be nice to see the abolition of private property in these states, generally I think these states should be less productive overall than others but have huge bonuses to general happiness and long term stability (assuming an "ideal" of post capital socialism, not a dictatorship masquerading as one!) Heart/Government already models this pretty well, the ability to seize the means would be great for RP purposes.

Capitalist States- would be amazing to see a boom bust cycle modelled. Is fractional reserve banking on the cards? Surely s powerful state with capitalist tendencies could move past the energy credit standard! Would be an interesting mechanic to play around, a boom of several turns in which your wealth and industry grows turn upon turn moving into a catastrophic bust in which you are vulnerable.

Cheers Vic, keep up the great work!


Why would socialist regimes receive a happiness bonus? Socialism is about having zero economic freedom and rights. This does not lead to happiness. neither does economic collapse or poverty. The benefit of socialism for society is the ability to put all economic efforts into the military while being able to completely neglect the demands of the population.
So in-game it is autocracy+bureacracy/enforcement.
Fascism (at least the historical versions in Europe) is a socialist form of government. Just a xenophobic version.

The boom-bust cycle of capitalism is indeed about government actions using the central bank, but I do not see how it adds anything fun to the game. It doesn't fit here.




I suspect we have very different ideas as to what socialism is! Socialism is where the workers control the means of production. So conversely to your statement of "Zero economic freedom and rights" a socialist entity would be one with more freedom and rights than a capitalist democracy or republic in which the capitalist class decides the distribution of said means.


As for Boom and Bust, could be modelled through strats. Boost your income and production through affecting monetary policy at the risk of a bust.




fuke -> RE: [Suggestion] More modelling of different government types would be nice! (10/26/2020 4:45:06 PM)

The game basically has this already. See the history section in the manual and info about the parties in your secretary reports. Parties also seem to appear, grow or shrink depending on what you do.

You are free to choose how to run your government without being pigeon-holed based on OTL Terran nomenclature. IMHO to use the terminology of our own planet, authentic Marxist socialism would be something like Democracy + Government + (Heart or Mind). Stalinist/Strasserist nationalistic "socialism" would be (Authoritarianism or Meritocracy) + Government + (Mind or Fist). But that's based on my own view of Earth history and politics, probably much different from yours and Vic's. If you think that "socialism" means an authoritarian system such as that which existed in Ancient Rome or Egypt then you can view the game-world in your own way without anachronistic labels. This is the beauty of the open-minded approach I think :P

For example, I have an Equality Party and a Syndic Union party/cult in my country and they are basically the moderate and radical socialists, respectively. The Martial Republicans, Sacred Steel school feel like national populists and fascists.

But I also feel like they are like the Mohists and Legalists etc. who were jockeying for influence in the Qin State in ancient China. Some of these ideas of national policy go further beyond the 20th century earth.

So which is correct? Maybe both or neither. They aren't exact analogues to any point in our history and this open-endedness makes it more interesting. Getting feels from the 1930s CE and the 200s BCE at the same time is pretty cool.

What I would like is the ability to sponsor a party and use it as a vehicle to convert a democracy into a politburo/dictatorship ... or even create one from scratch, like Mengistu's Derg or Trujillo's Dominican Party.




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