To Vichy not to Vichy (Full Version)

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craigbear -> To Vichy not to Vichy (11/13/2020 12:58:07 PM)

Playing a solo game of global war. France is on her last legs in Sept/Oct 41. Paris is surrounded and there are only 6 or 7 units outside of that which are free to move. BEF has escaped home except for an HQ Gorton on the west coast. A couple more could land.

Anyhow, looks like partial conquest may be an option depending on turn length and weather.

As Germany, should I Vichy or conquer France.

Added info... the French fleet is in West Med, North Africa will likely be conquered by Italy next impulse. Marseilles is French but may not hold out... in the event of Vichy, I am not certain the BBs will be able to relocate to a Metropolitan port if it falls therefore making chances of territories going Vichy higher if Marseilles falls (the BBs will have to go to Syria I think.)

I do not envision a Spain and Gibraltar gambit... my plan is 1941 Barb.

So Vichy or conquest if the choice arises?

Thanks.



Centuur -> RE: To Vichy not to Vichy (11/13/2020 1:48:55 PM)

It depends on the situation on the map. Can you get to Toulouse and lyons before the French (or the British) can put a couple of units there? That city is a better fortress than the Maginot line. Especially if the British can defend the area to the West to Bordeaux, it gets pretty difficult to dig the Allies out.

It's S/O already and to get units to the East takes time too (and you need to sort out the Balkans too. Nothing is more dangerous than a British/US invasion in Greece with a neutral Yugoslavia in 1943).

Generally speaking: no Vichy is better than having Vichy. So if you are pretty sure you can get all factories this turn, I would go for it.



craigbear -> RE: To Vichy not to Vichy (11/13/2020 2:14:44 PM)

Don't I just need 1/2 the factories... or am I misremembering.



Orm -> RE: To Vichy not to Vichy (11/13/2020 2:45:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: craigbear

Don't I just need 1/2 the factories... or am I misremembering.

Germany needs all French factories to conquer France.

France, however, need to have lost at least half of the factories to be allowed to surrender.



palne -> RE: To Vichy not to Vichy (11/13/2020 3:57:09 PM)

It's always a fantasy of mine to completely conquer France (which is different than just vanilla conquer which is what you are asking about). With N. Africa conquered and BB's outside of France proper, the odds of colonies going Free France is 20% less (if memory serves) and the easiest colonies to go FF--N. Africa--have been taken by Italy. That means fewer rolls and low odds of FF. If there is no FF colony then France gets completely conquered. That is glorious and songs will be sung..! But between Lyon and Toulouse it can be very difficult. It is true that dislodging the UK can be tough but killing UK land units early in the war can really crimp Allied offensive action in '43. But, the bigger issue is if this conquering of France sets you back until '42 for Russia, the '42 Russian army is a whole different beast than the '41 Russian army. There are way more factories and resources to be had in Russian than in France--even if fully conquered.



paulderynck -> RE: To Vichy not to Vichy (11/13/2020 5:57:47 PM)

I have seen Free France conquered a couple times due to no Free France colony being rolled. It even happened on one occasion without the +2 for no BBs at home. But of course there was a Vichy and eventually a liberated France or a reconstituted France when Vichy was collapsed.

Completely conquering France with no Vichy in play is, I would say, impossible unless both sides cooperate to make it happen (so maybe "just for fun" in a solitaire game).




craigbear -> RE: To Vichy not to Vichy (11/13/2020 5:59:25 PM)

So, I could go for it, at the risk of FF surrender if I do not do succeed in the turn. The mountain city beside Switzerland has two mountain units. There are two strong French inf in the city north of the Vichy mountains.

I think I will Vichy rather than chance a surrender. Worried ultimately about a turn in the weather making conquest this turn unlikely.

Thanks.



craigbear -> RE: To Vichy not to Vichy (11/13/2020 6:02:40 PM)

Need to do some factory counting to see if I can take Marseilles and not trigger surrender. Be nice to trap those BBs and force rebate to Syria.



Neilster -> RE: To Vichy not to Vichy (11/13/2020 10:21:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: craigbear

Playing a solo game of global war. France is on her last legs in Sept/Oct 41. Paris is surrounded and there are only 6 or 7 units outside of that which are free to move. BEF has escaped home except for an HQ Gorton on the west coast. A couple more could land.

Anyhow, looks like partial conquest may be an option depending on turn length and weather.

As Germany, should I Vichy or conquer France.

Added info... the French fleet is in West Med, North Africa will likely be conquered by Italy next impulse. Marseilles is French but may not hold out... in the event of Vichy, I am not certain the BBs will be able to relocate to a Metropolitan port if it falls therefore making chances of territories going Vichy higher if Marseilles falls (the BBs will have to go to Syria I think.)

I do not envision a Spain and Gibraltar gambit... my plan is 1941 Barb.

So Vichy or conquest if the choice arises?

Thanks.

Do you mean Sep/Oct 40? If not, how are you going to do a 41 Barbarossa?



craigbear -> RE: To Vichy not to Vichy (11/13/2020 11:54:35 PM)

I have done it before. Not too hard to move things to that front over the winter. A lot of railing and some walking... usually get enough there by May/June. Generally time for a quick pit stop for some fast walkers along the way to take Yugoslavia. France will fall next impulse and leave a holding force to hold Paris and hold off stragglers and BEF if any are around. So I start going East this turn. I will rail one inf HQ and several inf to Hungary and take Yugo in Nov/Dec or Jan?Feb or at worst Mar/April and still move some on into Rumania on time.

At least it has worked in the past... of course, hazard of playing solo is that there are no surprises in defence, so in a real game, who knows?



Neilster -> RE: To Vichy not to Vichy (11/14/2020 12:12:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: craigbear

I have done it before. Not too hard to move things to that front over the winter. A lot of railing and some walking... usually get enough there by May/June. Generally time for a quick pit stop for some fast walkers along the way to take Yugoslavia. France will fall next impulse and leave a holding force to hold Paris and hold off stragglers and BEF if any are around. So I start going East this turn. I will rail one inf HQ and several inf to Hungary and take Yugo in Nov/Dec or Jan?Feb or at worst Mar/April and still move some on into Rumania on time.

At least it has worked in the past... of course, hazard of playing solo is that there are no surprises in defence, so in a real game, who knows?

But you wrote, "France is on her last legs in Sept/Oct 41", so you would be talking about May/Jun 42.



craigbear -> RE: To Vichy not to Vichy (11/14/2020 12:39:50 AM)

Oops. Sorry. 1940.



paulderynck -> RE: To Vichy not to Vichy (11/16/2020 9:37:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: craigbear

Need to do some factory counting to see if I can take Marseilles and not trigger surrender. Be nice to trap those BBs and force rebate to Syria.

They can get to the French Atlantic ports if they are open. And/or Corsica and still count as in Metro France.



craigbear -> RE: To Vichy not to Vichy (11/17/2020 5:05:50 AM)

Can they? They have 4-2/5-2 movement if I recall correctly. Wouldn't range have to be at least 3. And a couple are in the 1 box... won't that affect rebase difference. Been so long since I have played, I may need to reread naval movement rules regarding especially return to base.

Thanks for any advice.



Courtenay -> RE: To Vichy not to Vichy (11/17/2020 6:05:32 AM)

Being in the one box won't hurt 4-2 BBs, as their movement allowance is larger than their range. Being in the West Med. and only having a range two does indeed stop them from getting to the Atlantic ports. Head for Corsica. If they are in one of the French Med ports and are overrun, then their range is doubled, and they can make it to the Atlantic ports.



craigbear -> RE: To Vichy not to Vichy (11/17/2020 6:13:52 AM)

Great advice!



paulderynck -> RE: To Vichy not to Vichy (11/18/2020 5:04:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: craigbear

Can they? They have 4-2/5-2 movement if I recall correctly. Wouldn't range have to be at least 3. And a couple are in the 1 box... won't that affect rebase difference. Been so long since I have played, I may need to reread naval movement rules regarding especially return to base.

Thanks for any advice.

If in port and forced to rebase they can go double their range. If already at sea they are limited by which sea zone they are in. Still Corsica may be an option.



craigbear -> RE: To Vichy not to Vichy (11/19/2020 5:24:07 AM)

Yes... I seem to recall Corsica is part of Metropolitan France so no adverse effect on Vichy rolls from not having BBs in France.



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