Open-Top AFV "cannot fire" Rule (Full Version)

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JamesHunt -> Open-Top AFV "cannot fire" Rule (12/5/2020 12:13:21 PM)

"AFV Crew Exposed/Buttoned Up
By default; all AFVs that have Crew hatches start the
battle buttoned up. All open topped AFVs like American
M10 tank destroyer, German Marder III tank destroyer or half-tracks
will by default start with their Crew exposed so that they can fully
function on the battlefield. Buttoned up open top AFVs cannot fire or
move as the Crew is trying to hide from enemy fire. Clicking on the
button changes the AFV Crew exposure."
Manual

What do others think about this rule?

The fighting compartment of many of these open-top vehicles were properly shielded from direct/level (small arms) fire - especially frontal but some all-aspect. Usually they were equipped with optics in the fighting compartment and it was not mandatory to expose the crew in order to fire the weapon systems. Perhaps the situational awarness and commander´s directing was not that effective but it was far not being able to return fire because the crew "is trying to hide from enemy fire".



rixtertech -> RE: Open-Top AFV "cannot fire" Rule (12/5/2020 2:07:29 PM)

I agree with you. It's too bad you edited out your suggested rule changes, I thought they were good and reasonable.

Another aspect of the game mechanics that drives me up the wall is the frequency of breakdowns. If meatspace AFV's broke down as often as they do in TOTH gamespace, Operation Barbarossa would have been a two-week armored incursion followed by three years of old-fashioned trench misery not far from the German border. I try to avoid scenarios that are heavy on AFV's in TOTH for this reason and 4.6.3.11 just adds to the frustration.



JamesHunt -> RE: Open-Top AFV "cannot fire" Rule (12/5/2020 3:48:21 PM)

I wanted first make sure that there is not some for me unknown special reason for this rule before making suggestions.

They were
1) Rather give open-top vehicles a penalty when engaged by enemy infantry in adjacent hexes
2) give vehicles such as the Marder that are only properly protected from a specific facing a penatly when being attacked from the rear or the sides
3) give them a penalty when being attacked from higher elevation or urban/from buildings closeby
4) give them a penalty when receiving indirect fire
5) give them a more than usual penalty to spotting when buttoned up



Centuur -> RE: Open-Top AFV "cannot fire" Rule (12/5/2020 6:48:32 PM)

It will be difficult to decide which open top vehicles have to get what penalty.

There were AFV's which were very vulnerable because they had only some front protection. Others were almost fully protected, apart from fire from higher altitudes...



Zovs -> RE: Open-Top AFV "cannot fire" Rule (12/5/2020 7:25:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

It will be difficult to decide which open top vehicles have to get what penalty.

There were AFV's which were very vulnerable because they had only some front protection. Others were almost fully protected, apart from fire from higher altitudes...


ASL has already solved this problem so it’s not as hard it might seem.



JamesHunt -> RE: Open-Top AFV "cannot fire" Rule (12/6/2020 8:49:42 AM)

Suggestions aside I think the game would already profit from removing the "cannot fire" rule entirely at least from tank destroyers.



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