Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (Full Version)

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KPAX -> Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/8/2020 9:26:59 PM)

Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking

Trying to gauge how well my submarines are doing sinking merchant shipping.

As a monthly average, by year and split between AKs and TKs, how many should my subs be sinking to make the Japanese war machine hurt?

I do know that capital ships will sink merchants as well, just trying to get a handle on how well my subs are are doing thus far.

Through January 1943, I have sunk a total of approximately 160 AKs of various types and 21 TKs/AOs.

Nearly all my subs are upgraded and back out hunting. 1943 has seen a nice increase in sinking.

I am thinking thus far, through 12/42 I have averaged per month 10 or so AKs with a big increase in 1943 to maybe 30/month.

The TKs/AOs are probably just an average of 1/month through 1942 and 2-3/ month in 1943.



Kull -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/9/2020 3:07:07 AM)

Keeping in mind that FOW obscures the real numbers (as it did in real life), go to the Intelligence Reports, "ships sunk", uncheck "Allied ships", and then sort on "sunk by". There you can get a count of the submarine torpedo and gun victims, which should give you a rough estimate of how well you are doing.



KPAX -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/9/2020 1:18:11 PM)

Thank you Kill, A fellow Texan.

I didn’t know where to get the information but thank you nonetheless.

I was interested in what would be a good rate at syncing the merchant ships and a monthly basis so as to hinder the Japanese economy.



GetAssista -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/9/2020 3:50:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KPAX
I was interested in what would be a good rate at syncing the merchant ships and a monthly basis so as to hinder the Japanese economy.

It is meaningless unless you really turn up the heat. Japan has lots of excess merchant capacity in stock. Not so much in some mods, but most of necessary resource routes are very close to HI anyway so it is hard to put a pressure on them until Death Star camps there. AI has bonuses on production anyway so you should not plan on smothering it economically.

PBEM is another matter, and tanker losses are really painful. xAKs - not so much apart from VPs and occasional supply load



KPAX -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/9/2020 11:06:12 PM)

Thank you.

This is a PBEN Game. In early 1943 it seems like I am sinking a lot of his AKs with the occasional sinking of a TK. It is good to know that it will really be hard to hurt his economy by just thinking tons of his AKs.

Thank you for the information.



spence -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/10/2020 1:47:43 AM)

Japan IRL had a significant deficit in merchant shipping (IIRC on the order of several million tons deficit to begin with an increasing deficit thereafter) but in the game they don't have to feed their civilian population anything.



rustysi -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/10/2020 4:54:53 AM)

quote:

In early 1943 it seems like I am sinking a lot


That's when the U. S. torps have their final 'fix'.



Sardaukar -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/10/2020 10:33:46 AM)

You can sink a lot even when US torpedoes are not in top condition.

You have lots of subs and in addition S-boats, Dutch and Brits are not affected by defective torpedoes.



Rusty1961 -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/10/2020 12:09:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KPAX

Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking

Trying to gauge how well my submarines are doing sinking merchant shipping.

As a monthly average, by year and split between AKs and TKs, how many should my subs be sinking to make the Japanese war machine hurt?

I do know that capital ships will sink merchants as well, just trying to get a handle on how well my subs are are doing thus far.

Through January 1943, I have sunk a total of approximately 160 AKs of various types and 21 TKs/AOs.

Nearly all my subs are upgraded and back out hunting. 1943 has seen a nice increase in sinking.

I am thinking thus far, through 12/42 I have averaged per month 10 or so AKs with a big increase in 1943 to maybe 30/month.

The TKs/AOs are probably just an average of 1/month through 1942 and 2-3/ month in 1943.




95% of the time the US sub fleet can't come near their historical counterparts and strangle Japan economically. Too much reserve capacity.

Best to use your subs as advanced recon to spot KB at major bases ingress/egress routes and choke points. When KB is gone then switch over to the oil centers.



Sardaukar -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/10/2020 12:42:49 PM)

Not sure if AKs can load Oil, maybe not. If so, losing lot TKs is fatal to IJN economy.



Kull -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/10/2020 4:43:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Not sure if AKs can load Oil, maybe not. If so, losing lot TKs is fatal to IJN economy.


There is a "back-up system":

1) There are 134 ships in the Std-A class. 44 arrive as TKs while the 90 xAKs can all be converted to TK.
2) Std-B: 27 total with 10 TKs and 17 convert-able xAKs
3) Std-C: 108 total with 35 TKs and 73 convert-able xAKs
4) Std-D: 128 total with 0 TKs but 128 convert-able xAKs

Certainly not large capacity vessels, but that's still almost 400 small-to medium size tankers.



KPAX -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/10/2020 8:03:54 PM)

Perfect. this helps a lot in terms of how many they have and how many they can convert.

Very much appreciated.



Kull -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/10/2020 10:05:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KPAX

Perfect. this helps a lot in terms of how many they have and how many they can convert.

Very much appreciated.


Actually, that's a bit misleading. The AI never converts ships - it's a "human-only" mechanism. So only 99 of the 400 will ever be AI-Japan tankers.



rustysi -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/11/2020 6:56:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Not sure if AKs can load Oil, maybe not. If so, losing lot TKs is fatal to IJN economy.


There is a "back-up system":

1) There are 134 ships in the Std-A class. 44 arrive as TKs while the 90 xAKs can all be converted to TK.
2) Std-B: 27 total with 10 TKs and 17 convert-able xAKs
3) Std-C: 108 total with 35 TKs and 73 convert-able xAKs
4) Std-D: 128 total with 0 TKs but 128 convert-able xAKs

Certainly not large capacity vessels, but that's still almost 400 small-to medium size tankers.


Yeah, Japan does have a lot of small conversions, very useful. She also gets a fair number of 8k ish and 11k ish tankers in mid '43, and beyond.



Ambassador -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/11/2020 7:55:48 AM)

And if you play on Hard or Very Hard, the AI will have a help for supplies, reducing further the impact of sinking xAK’s
If you play against a human Japan, he might put in place the pipeline from Singapore to Fusan, further reducing the shipping needs (and concentrate those escorts in the shallow seas). Which also reduces the fuel usage for the merchant marine...



rustysi -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/11/2020 6:58:49 PM)

quote:

If you play against a human Japan, he might put in place the pipeline from Singapore to Fusan,


Even though I play as Japan I tend to frown on this as there's no way in the game to interdict it. That is short of invading through the coast of China.

From what I've read here it isn't a way to get all resources through, but it could be enough. Myself, I would only attempt it later in the game, when the sea route is cut off. Again from what I've read here, its much more difficult to activate at that time.

I always prefer to play the game and not the 'code'. Then again the meaning of 'the game' is up for interpretation (as is the 'code'). Its why I suggest players communicate before they pair up.



Ambassador -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/12/2020 7:58:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

If you play against a human Japan, he might put in place the pipeline from Singapore to Fusan,


Even though I play as Japan I tend to frown on this as there's no way in the game to interdict it. That is short of invading through the coast of China.

From what I've read here it isn't a way to get all resources through, but it could be enough. Myself, I would only attempt it later in the game, when the sea route is cut off. Again from what I've read here, its much more difficult to activate at that time.

I always prefer to play the game and not the 'code'. Then again the meaning of 'the game' is up for interpretation (as is the 'code'). Its why I suggest players communicate before they pair up.


I agree with you, I dislike the move, but I wouldn’t necessarily object to my opponent doing it.

But I wouldn’t do it.



KPAX -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/15/2020 3:33:37 PM)

Thank you for the helpful hints and suggestions.

In a stack game which is a PBEM game here what kind of my thoughts.

There are approximately 1,800 AKs which Japan will get over the course of the war. This is without any conversions. They will get approximately 380 TKs + 30 AOs. These are also without any conversion to increase the numbers.

With this in mind starting in 1942 and for the next three years I would need to sink the following:

AK - 2/day,
TK -3/week.
AO - 1/month

At this rate virtually eliminate the merchant fleet by the end of 1944.

Yes, this may be an aggressive plan but I believe as the US and torpedo Doug Reed is illuminated by the fall of 1943 this is potential.

At least this gives me a 30,000 foot view and an idea to shoot for.

Again, thank you for your thoughts and suggestions!



RangerJoe -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/15/2020 4:58:03 PM)

Do what to the ships? Sync them?[&:]

quote:

With this in mind starting in 1942 and for the next three years I would need to sync the following:

AK - 2/day,
TK -3/week.
AO - 1/month



Yaab -> RE: Japanese Merchant Ships Sinking (12/15/2020 6:18:07 PM)

One a day into Tokyo Bay.



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