Trying to figure out the private economy (Full Version)

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Prozorovsky -> Trying to figure out the private economy (12/9/2020 4:31:01 PM)

Hello everybody, just got Shadow Empire a couple days ago and have been quite taken with it. The private economy in particular is really neat and I've been trying to figure out what it can and can't do.

I know it can handle all QoL needs, food, water, fuel, metal, rare metal, industry points and research points.

A wip list:

Food:
Dome-Farms
Open air farms
Hydroponics?
Xeno-farms?

Mines for everything but radioactives, maybe never seen rare earth mines.

Industry Poionts:
Light Industry

Security:
Police Station
Scout Station
Surveillance station

Health:
Hospice
Private Hospital
Waste
Sewer

Education:
Private School
Private University
Library

Entertainment:
Arena
Casino
Brothel
Parks

Machines:
??

Hi-Tech parts:
??

Energy:
??

Ammo:
??

Research:
Lab

Logistics:
Transport Hub

Scavenging Community

I haven't seen anything for machines, hi-tech parts, energy or ammo yet. I can see that transport hubs have upgrades but I've only found a single instance of them being upgraded and it was in a minor regime.

I've also never seen another scavenging community built, even after running out with large unspoiled spaces of ruins and artifacts.

Its been really cool watching the private economy go and take care of things for me, but I'm not sure of what it can and can't do, waiting for something that can't happen like energy could pretty bad. Can anyone fill any gaps?

Are more scavenging communities possible? Are they super low priority?

Will Private Transport Hubs upgrade?



Sieppo -> RE: Trying to figure out the private economy (12/9/2020 5:37:56 PM)

Quick answer, privatize all mineral private efforts and the truck hub in the city. Minerals and fuel are a rare commodity, you don't want filthy entrepreneurs stealing them. You get some cash for it though but its likely not worth it. Do not privatize at least all private food efforts, because they feed your population - it's the first thing built if enough private investmen

EDIT: a nice bonus of taking the mineral stuff from the private sector is also, that you can sell them for big money because they cannot get them any other way.



Soar_Slitherine -> RE: Trying to figure out the private economy (12/9/2020 5:51:38 PM)

I saw a transport hub get upgraded to level 2 once, but haven't seen a scavenging community get built yet.



zgrssd -> RE: Trying to figure out the private economy (12/9/2020 7:42:27 PM)

As Sieppo said, Nationalize every mining asset - unless you really do not need the resource.
The private ones take the same resources out of the ground, but only give you a fraction. And especially the Recyclers Rare Metals are aiming around 5 per unit, making it a massive early income source.

However, never nationalize food assets. You really do not want to have to deal with feeding the population. via Emergency Food.
Those farms bring you more if they do not need any water upkeep and give you a small kickback, while feeding all those private citizens.

All that QOL does, is increase your civilisaiton level. And at least personally, I found no value in a high civilisation level. If anything, that one is detrimental.

Assety you nationalize try to match the closest public asset there is.



Prozorovsky -> RE: Trying to figure out the private economy (12/9/2020 10:25:36 PM)

Thank you for the tips Sieppo and zgrssd. Thanks to Soar_Slitherine too, so transport hubs and scavenging communities are elusive for others as well.

I'm not really trying to min max the game. Trying to role play filthy entrepreneur sympathizers but I don't know what the system can and can't do.

If the private economy can't build power plants I need to know so I build them, if it can't upgrade its private hubs then I have to, if it can't build more scavenger communities I have to build recycle centers, no choice rp or not. Same goes for machines and hi-tech.

Doesn't seem to be much in the manual on what its features are.

So far my experiments with the private economy have been super positive and it presents interesting choices between micro/macro, roleplay, min maxing etc.

I had one game going where it really shined, though I was playing on beginner. Heavily populated planet, surrounded by peaceful farmers that all want safety and stability, went foreign affairs after economy and exploded in size growing 5x or more in a couple years with not a drop of blood spilled. Private economy soared, five or more cities building something consistently, often its QoL but often enough they develop and upgrade resources needed. QoL and Civilization levels balloon allowing me to go crazy with bureaucracy and tech.

Very curious to see how it adapts to other situations, harder difficulty, less than ideal planets etc.



zgrssd -> RE: Trying to figure out the private economy (12/10/2020 2:50:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Prozorovsky

I'm not really trying to min max the game. Trying to role play filthy entrepreneur sympathizers but I don't know what the system can and can't do.

If the private economy can't build power plants I need to know so I build them, if it can't upgrade its private hubs then I have to, if it can't build more scavenger communities I have to build recycle centers, no choice rp or not. Same goes for machines and hi-tech.

Doesn't seem to be much in the manual on what its features are.


The Private Economy does build mining assets. However I never saw them build a Recycling plant. Nor did I see it build a T1 Truck station.
It is just that you start with one privat recycle and truck stastion if you picked tech level 3. And most neutral cities got a T1 Privat truck stastion spawned

It can not build anything like power plants or advanced factories. I all ever saw it produce/build for were:
- QOL
- Private Food
- Some IP, both via light industry and Service Tax.



Prozorovsky -> RE: Trying to figure out the private economy (12/13/2020 12:26:16 AM)

quote:


ORIGINAL: zgrssd

The Private Economy does build mining assets. However I never saw them build a Recycling plant. Nor did I see it build a T1 Truck station.
It is just that you start with one privat recycle and truck stastion if you picked tech level 3. And most neutral cities got a T1 Privat truck stastion spawned

It can not build anything like power plants or advanced factories. I all ever saw it produce/build for were:
- QOL
- Private Food
- Some IP, both via light industry and Service Tax.


Outside of QOL it can provide research points through the Private Lab, Loyalty points from the Private Hospital, the Private Uni may provide something extra the public one doesn't as well. This game is quite a black box, really hard to say what is and isn't there.

Latest game on a medusa world with extreme violence and no other majors has been rather sobering as far as how reliable the Private Economy is. With everyone around me hostile had to be careful or we would be surrounded.

Did not do well with having only one zone, too stuck on QoL, wouldn't develop resources regardless of everything on the market being purchased and large deficits in those goods. A chance to make bank and plenty of funds to make it happen but no good. Had to compromise.

With several zones of decent populations its finally started to get more reliable but its started to stagnate as well, buildings aren't getting upgraded and new ones aren't getting built in the older zones and not do to a lack in funds. Thinking it is likely population related, maybe civ level isn't pushing QoL demand up enough as well.

I also managed to find several upgraded private hubs in the wild, including a level three.

Some thoughts/theories on the private economy:

Each zone has a single private building slot, if it's full it won't build anything else till it's done. It's a hard cap on its expansion, more zones more being built at any given time.

It's unreliable. It doesn't care much about how you are doing, if the Huns are at the gates and you need metal or fuel BAD. It's just gunna do what it wants when it wants.

Because of this unreliability, it makes having more zones even more important. The more zones you have the more chances you have of one of their private economies actually doing something useful.

Things you think might influence aren't necessarily, buying lots of oil on the market may not make it more likely to build oil plants for instance it's just a guess. A lot of things could be placebos. The game is a black box.

The Private economy will waste excess funds on luxuries, it seems to waste the more excess it has. Dumping private investment after private investment could result in a lot of waste and nothing being built. I have no idea if luxury spending has its positives.

Some advanced private buildings provide benefits their public counterpart don't and others provide something you can't get through public assets at all (Like pure research points).

I've never seen an advanced private building such as a Private Hospital or Private University built somewhere without a level three Hospice or Private School. Some things could be locked behind requisites like buildings, city level etc.




Soar_Slitherine -> RE: Trying to figure out the private economy (12/13/2020 1:32:52 AM)

quote:

It's unreliable. It doesn't care much about how you are doing, if the Huns are at the gates and you need metal or fuel BAD. It's just gunna do what it wants when it wants.

Because of this unreliability, it makes having more zones even more important. The more zones you have the more chances you have of one of their private economies actually doing something useful.


Spamming more zones is great in a Commerce-profile-focused playthrough since one thing the private economy does do reliably is put up a level 1 light industry asset pretty early, and light industry is usually the thing you most want them to build. Helpfully, there's a faction card called Investor Backing once you get Commerce-60 that allows you to kickstart a zone's private economy for just 5 PP.

quote:

The Private economy will waste excess funds on luxuries, it seems to waste the more excess it has. Dumping private investment after private investment could result in a lot of waste and nothing being built. I have no idea if luxury spending has its positives.


Luxury spending increases happiness, attracts free folk and increases market demand for items. It can earn you credits via taxes, tariffs or selling items to the market. So it's not completely wasted money.



Prozorovsky -> RE: Trying to figure out the private economy (12/13/2020 2:25:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Soar_Slitherine

quote:

It's unreliable. It doesn't care much about how you are doing, if the Huns are at the gates and you need metal or fuel BAD. It's just gunna do what it wants when it wants.

Because of this unreliability, it makes having more zones even more important. The more zones you have the more chances you have of one of their private economies actually doing something useful.


Spamming more zones is great in a Commerce-profile-focused playthrough since one thing the private economy does do reliably is put up a level 1 light industry asset pretty early, and light industry is usually the thing you most want them to build. Helpfully, there's a faction card called Investor Backing once you get Commerce-60 that allows you to kickstart a zone's private economy for just 5 PP.

quote:

The Private economy will waste excess funds on luxuries, it seems to waste the more excess it has. Dumping private investment after private investment could result in a lot of waste and nothing being built. I have no idea if luxury spending has its positives.


Luxury spending increases happiness, attracts free folk and increases market demand for items. It can earn you credits via taxes, tariffs or selling items to the market. So it's not completely wasted money.


That is very cool to hear, important too, thank you.

The zone spam has been something I've been trying with the game I mentioned. Going full commerce, just managed to get stock market not long ago, been doing like you said to kick start new zones and it's worked pretty well. Overall the new zones got to a very slow start though, population I suspect just wasn't growing quick enough. The planet being largely irradiated may not have been helping either... Hmm. Would be rather funny if people started turning that shade of green the mutants are.











Uemon -> RE: Trying to figure out the private economy (12/14/2020 1:40:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Prozorovsky


quote:

ORIGINAL: Soar_Slitherine

quote:

It's unreliable. It doesn't care much about how you are doing, if the Huns are at the gates and you need metal or fuel BAD. It's just gunna do what it wants when it wants.

Because of this unreliability, it makes having more zones even more important. The more zones you have the more chances you have of one of their private economies actually doing something useful.


Spamming more zones is great in a Commerce-profile-focused playthrough since one thing the private economy does do reliably is put up a level 1 light industry asset pretty early, and light industry is usually the thing you most want them to build. Helpfully, there's a faction card called Investor Backing once you get Commerce-60 that allows you to kickstart a zone's private economy for just 5 PP.

quote:

The Private economy will waste excess funds on luxuries, it seems to waste the more excess it has. Dumping private investment after private investment could result in a lot of waste and nothing being built. I have no idea if luxury spending has its positives.


Luxury spending increases happiness, attracts free folk and increases market demand for items. It can earn you credits via taxes, tariffs or selling items to the market. So it's not completely wasted money.


That is very cool to hear, important too, thank you.

The zone spam has been something I've been trying with the game I mentioned. Going full commerce, just managed to get stock market not long ago, been doing like you said to kick start new zones and it's worked pretty well. Overall the new zones got to a very slow start though, population I suspect just wasn't growing quick enough. The planet being largely irradiated may not have been helping either... Hmm. Would be rather funny if people started turning that shade of green the mutants are.



I dont think zone spam is optimal, unless youre beyond a certain point in population; from my personal experimentation, its much better to have 1 main city, your capital for example, and have it grow so that you unlock next size upgrades - while other cities are kept as small as possible; the reason for that is that you unlock next levels of building upgrades, and those give bigger and bigger production of resources; it is better to have all the metal, rares and oil production centralized in one place, then to have a bunch of level 1 or level 2 buildings everywhere. A single level 5 or 6 building will outproduce a dozen level 1 ones. And it also makes your defense priorities much relaxed.



Prozorovsky -> RE: Trying to figure out the private economy (12/14/2020 8:01:30 PM)


quote:


ORIGINAL: Uemon

I dont think zone spam is optimal, unless youre beyond a certain point in population; from my personal experimentation, its much better to have 1 main city, your capital for example, and have it grow so that you unlock next size upgrades - while other cities are kept as small as possible; the reason for that is that you unlock next levels of building upgrades, and those give bigger and bigger production of resources; it is better to have all the metal, rares and oil production centralized in one place, then to have a bunch of level 1 or level 2 buildings everywhere. A single level 5 or 6 building will outproduce a dozen level 1 ones. And it also makes your defense priorities much relaxed.


This is more or less what I've found with what I suspect was a population bottleneck. I was excited to see what was going to happen after having unified with some large cities. The sudden population explosion may really kicked things in gear.

I agree that high level buildings are super. A big benefit of not fearing that civ level is those big bureaucratic offices. Even better if you have a bunch of them.

Have to say I don't like the vulnerability of being too centralized though.



zgrssd -> RE: Trying to figure out the private economy (12/14/2020 10:11:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Prozorovsky


quote:

ORIGINAL: Soar_Slitherine

quote:

It's unreliable. It doesn't care much about how you are doing, if the Huns are at the gates and you need metal or fuel BAD. It's just gunna do what it wants when it wants.

Because of this unreliability, it makes having more zones even more important. The more zones you have the more chances you have of one of their private economies actually doing something useful.


Spamming more zones is great in a Commerce-profile-focused playthrough since one thing the private economy does do reliably is put up a level 1 light industry asset pretty early, and light industry is usually the thing you most want them to build. Helpfully, there's a faction card called Investor Backing once you get Commerce-60 that allows you to kickstart a zone's private economy for just 5 PP.

quote:

The Private economy will waste excess funds on luxuries, it seems to waste the more excess it has. Dumping private investment after private investment could result in a lot of waste and nothing being built. I have no idea if luxury spending has its positives.


Luxury spending increases happiness, attracts free folk and increases market demand for items. It can earn you credits via taxes, tariffs or selling items to the market. So it's not completely wasted money.


That is very cool to hear, important too, thank you.

The zone spam has been something I've been trying with the game I mentioned. Going full commerce, just managed to get stock market not long ago, been doing like you said to kick start new zones and it's worked pretty well. Overall the new zones got to a very slow start though, population I suspect just wasn't growing quick enough. The planet being largely irradiated may not have been helping either... Hmm. Would be rather funny if people started turning that shade of green the mutants are.



After they got their basic buildings, Luxury Spending is propably the most usefull thing the Private Economy does. Luxury Goods mean happiness. And it is by far the biggest, consistent happiness source. Basically a must have.

Luxury Goods mean driving Trader prices for those goods up and increases Empire Trading. So you get extra from selling stuff and Traffis.



Prozorovsky -> RE: Trying to figure out the private economy (12/15/2020 10:04:42 PM)

Have finally seen a Private Transport Hub get upgraded! Very cool to see.



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