RE: A Schlieffen Plan study (Full Version)

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OldCrowBalthazor -> RE: A Schlieffen Plan study (12/30/2020 2:10:03 AM)

First, thanks to both of you for pursuing this study further. These examples are fascinating to say the least..so more please!

The Reims issue in particular is something I've internally debated with my self when doing a Schlieffen, (Which I ALWAYS do in a pbem match.) This example somewhat validates my example posted earlier on this thread..but only somewhat. A lot depends on what and how your opponent reacts, and every match I've been in with different folks presents different opportunities and dilemmas.

In this first example, seeing a one two punch (Belgium first left hook, Nancy-Fort Line right jab) would be devastating to France..who will have to make the hard decision about balancing money spent on replacing losses and research going into the winter.

Since I play the Entente more than the Central Powers in this game in pbem matches (which is odd because in the past I always wanted Central Powers or Axis over the good guys haha), I am really looking forward to see what else both of you come up with in this Schlieffen Plan Study.

cheers




Chernobyl -> RE: A Schlieffen Plan study (12/30/2020 3:23:11 AM)

Dazo and I will come up with the optimal attack strategy and then the next step will be to compare it to those strategies which don't declare war on Belgium (which apparently is a very popular strategy).

I've never NOT attacked Belgium so I am interested in anyone's comments are suggestions on the advantages of the other strategy.

But I do believe we can all agree that the Belgium/Schlieffen attacks are more "fun" though :)



OldCrowBalthazor -> RE: A Schlieffen Plan study (12/30/2020 4:09:57 AM)

Yeah..interested to see how a Russia/Serbia First would work between optimal players in the future, though I think not enough data can be gathered on that one to make a conclusion unless you two can bang it out to spring 1915 at least.

btw..Yes, in seems the Russia First strategy is very popular...but from my experience at least, it's a usually a war loser. But..then maybe I'm holding that opinion because I haven't seen it done right.

Ignoring Russia and staying on the defensive for too long can also be a war loser..and Russia is a glass cannon somewhat. If Novo-Georgievsk, Warsaw, Ivanograd fall..its a serious NM loss for Russia. Add in Vilna and Brest-Litovsk, and Russia crumbles like a cookie.

Anyway..this is the Schlieffen Plan study so I better not go on about Russia till you all get that done. :))



Taxman66 -> RE: A Schlieffen Plan study (1/1/2021 12:49:03 AM)

By using the Recon bomber on Liege, prior to the initial attack, you have a pretty good chance of knocking the defending down to 1. Then you can use an Inf that doesn't have to leave an AP to move away to finish it off.

Here is a more conservative attack variant.
I used the other CAV to reaches Reims with it's last AP, so the other CAV can attack Brussels from the SW and still move into the Loos mines. Alternately, it could take Lille but then there are fewer hexes to exploit into via Force March.

[image]local://upfiles/28692/3361AA9B1D6D46299647A8EE8D9ABFFF.jpg[/image]



Dazo -> RE: A Schlieffen Plan study (1/1/2021 8:43:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

By using the Recon bomber on Liege, prior to the initial attack, you have a pretty good chance of knocking the defending down to 1. Then you can use an Inf that doesn't have to leave an AP to move away to finish it off.

Here is a more conservative attack variant.
I used the other CAV to reaches Reims with it's last AP, so the other CAV can attack Brussels from the SW and still move into the Loos mines. Alternately, it could take Lille but then there are fewer hexes to exploit into via Force March.

[image]local://upfiles/28692/3361AA9B1D6D46299647A8EE8D9ABFFF.jpg[/image]


Nice tweak with the bomber Taxman66, leaves a bit more room to maneuver for France and two free hexes near Reims but german units have secure supply and are kept together for the next strike :) .




Dazo -> RE: A Schlieffen Plan study (1/1/2021 9:03:29 PM)

Here is our next try with Chernobyl. He used the UK bomber to isolate my advanced units but Reims still provided some supply so only 1 cavalry corps suffered from attrition (2 steps).
Taking Reims with a cavalry screen south of it is impossible on turn 1.
[img]https://i.ibb.co/f9b49kS/1914-08-15.png[/img]
[img]https://i.ibb.co/LvxGHrw/1914-08-15-1.png[/img]

Got bad rolls all over the place on turn 2 but still managed to take Nancy, Ypres and Bruxelles while besieging Antwerp.
Take note of the Sedan hex NW of Verdun, a french mobilized corps appeared there at the end of my turn making things a bit troublesome.
[img]https://i.ibb.co/tMX66td/1914-08-15-2.png[/img]
[img]https://i.ibb.co/X5LpLnX/1914-08-15-3.png[/img]

Overall, Germans suffered a bit more than last time but reached their objectives on both flanks while the center turned into a slugfest.
(MPPs losses were more or less the same for both sides but NM losses favored Germany heavily at 91% to 100%).
Once again, notice the two empty hexes, Sedan and the one N of Châlons, 2 mobilised french corps appeared there at the end of my turn complicating things again.
[img]https://i.ibb.co/kX65MSN/1914-08-29.png[/img]
[img]https://i.ibb.co/mrnjWwc/1914-08-29-1.png[/img]

Final result after Chernobyl last push to see how far a full french counterattack could go (french NM in free fall at 88%):
[img]https://i.ibb.co/1nrsmpm/1914-09-12.png[/img]

Conclusion:
- France can't sustain an offensive for long at the start of the war, Germany can take more losses (units and MPPs) while replacing them faster (and still be able to invest in trench tech for later).
- It's difficult for France to cut supply for advanced german units but can still cause trouble by counterattacking though it isn't wise to take too many units from the right flank to do it.
- So far, it seems better to entrench and form a continuous line while linking with UK and Belgium units.

Of course, things can change depending on what happens in the East as I used all german reinforcements to deal with french counterttacks as best as I could. Still could have spared at least a couple of corps by entrenching earlier or not attacking Nancy / the southern flank.

We'll try that in our next practice [8D].



mdsmall -> RE: A Schlieffen Plan study (2/4/2021 7:14:31 PM)

Hi Dazo,

This is an amazing piece of work - thank you for writing it and sharing it. I recently posted a question on the main WW1 Forum asking if anyone tried executing the Schlieffen Plan and Christolos pointed me to your study.

I just tried clicking on the filedropper link to download the pdf and receiving a warning from my computer that the certificate for this link had expired five days ago. I am not sure what that means, but perhaps you could refresh the link somewhat. I would like to download and read it carefully in sharp print, rather than in blurry type on my screen.

Many thanks in advance,

Michael



Dazo -> RE: A Schlieffen Plan study (2/4/2021 8:29:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mdsmall

Hi Dazo,

This is an amazing piece of work - thank you for writing it and sharing it. I recently posted a question on the main WW1 Forum asking if anyone tried executing the Schlieffen Plan and Christolos pointed me to your study.

I just tried clicking on the filedropper link to download the pdf and receiving a warning from my computer that the certificate for this link had expired five days ago. I am not sure what that means, but perhaps you could refresh the link somewhat. I would like to download and read it carefully in sharp print, rather than in blurry type on my screen.

Many thanks in advance,

Michael


Hi mdsmall,

Thanks for letting me know, I updated the link in the first post.
Here it is: PDF

Chernobyl and I practiced a bit on both sides so some things/moves may be slightly outdated in the pdf but it's still a good start. Enjoy the read [:)] .



OldCrowBalthazor -> RE: A Schlieffen Plan study (1/28/2022 1:32:53 AM)

Just had to review this epic thread on The Schlieffen Plan and bump it up to the top in the WarRoom here so others may see it. Have to brush up on this again. Can't believe its been a year...

Time for some practice runs. [8D]



Goodenough -> RE: A Schlieffen Plan study (1/29/2022 2:24:03 PM)

I'm new to the game and really enjoying it. I would love to have the guide in pdf form but I can't get the download to work.

Can anybody share the pdf again?




Robotron -> RE: A Schlieffen Plan study (1/30/2022 7:32:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodenough

I'm new to the game and really enjoying it. I would love to have the guide in pdf form but I can't get the download to work.

Can anybody share the pdf again?




Here you go:
https://easyupload.io/ch6m9m



Goodenough -> RE: A Schlieffen Plan study (1/30/2022 8:49:21 PM)

Thanks Robotron for providing the link, much appreciated.

And thanks to Dazo for creating it in the first place.



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