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sPzAbt653 -> Air filtration. Important? (12/22/2020 4:23:51 AM)

Air filtration. Important?
https://www.fccomfort.com/air-filtration-for-restaurants-during-covid-19/

For years ventilation systems have been designed and implemented with cost and energy efficiency as the top priority. However, in the age of coronavirus, there is mounting evidence that designing air circulation for purification first might play a helpful role in reducing the number of infected particles in the air. Every space and system is different, and businesses will require custom solutions to fit their individual needs. While air sanitizers and purification systems alone will not fully protect us from Covid-19, there is growing evidence that such systems can play a valuable part in an overall defense strategy.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/22/2020 4:24:10 AM)

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is not being helpful enough in its air quality recommendations.
https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2020/8/19/21364031/coronavirus-air-purifiers-filter-hepa-merv-ventilation

“It’s a huge engineering problem,” Shelly Miller, an environmental engineer at the University of Colorado Boulder, says. “We don’t have the systems in place for many buildings to be operated appropriately during a pandemic.” There are no perfectly safe indoor environments during the pandemic, but there are clear goals to have in mind when trying to make them safer.

1. Limit the amount of virus in the air in the first place. Ventilation may be able to help reduce indoors transmission, but it’s never going to be as effective as simply not having lots of people in a single indoor space.

2. Ventilate. The air in your home probably changes over once every hour or two hours,” Marr says. “We’re aiming for an air exchange rate of, like, six per hour.” However, researchers say that some restaurant systems pull in no outdoor air.

3. HEPA filters. The “HEPA” designation means they filter out at least 99.97 percent of particles that are 0.3 microns. Which is to say, they filter out practically everything. Unfortunately, not all systems can run these higher-efficiency filters, which can be quite dense. They often require more powerful fans to push air through.

If you look at air cleaning products, you’ll find a lot of gimmicks: ionizers, plasma generators that claim to amp up the power of filters. “There’s very little science behind them,” Siegel says. “It’s not only that the devices are ineffective and maybe lull people into a false sense of security, but in some cases they’re actually harmful.” Stick with HEPA or MERV-13+ rated filters. Or just open windows.



Gilmer -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/22/2020 11:28:04 AM)

Might as well lock this thread right now. Someone will say something, then someone else will come behind and completely misunderstand that post and post an argument against a point never even made, and it will devolve from there.



MrsWargamer -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/22/2020 12:09:04 PM)

Well, some will defend the notion this is a none problem to begin with.

I personally think if air filtration systems actually COULD work, it would be nice for many other uses too.

I only had one gift to buy, already bought it.
Christmas is ON in my home, but it is just me and my partner. I'm probably not going anywhere this week much, and will likely be greeting the New Year before I go out again much.

Soooo looking forward to saying hello to 2021 and NEW DECADE even :)
Hoping I can squeeze a few bucks out of the budget for wargames, but, I have been binging on models recently.



warspite1 -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/22/2020 12:12:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

I only had one gift to buy, already bought it.
Christmas is ON in my home, but it is just me and my partner. I'm probably not going anywhere this week much, and will likely be greeting the New Year before I go out again much.

Soooo looking forward to saying hello to 2021 and NEW DECADE even :)
Hoping I can squeeze a few bucks out of the budget for wargames, but, I have been binging on models recently.
warspite1

So have you bought any cool Lego sets recently Mrs W?



MrsWargamer -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/22/2020 12:46:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

I only had one gift to buy, already bought it.
Christmas is ON in my home, but it is just me and my partner. I'm probably not going anywhere this week much, and will likely be greeting the New Year before I go out again much.

Soooo looking forward to saying hello to 2021 and NEW DECADE even :)
Hoping I can squeeze a few bucks out of the budget for wargames, but, I have been binging on models recently.
warspite1

So have you bought any cool Lego sets recently Mrs W?



Oh if only I could. But they are either hard to find new sets I like, or they are so expensive. Look on Amazon, check out the brand Coby, they have some utterly cool military Legos (not Lego brand of course). But near 100 bucks for a tank or fighter is a bit rough.



MrRoadrunner -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/22/2020 1:49:08 PM)

Air filtration is very important. [8D]

RR



rico21 -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/22/2020 1:52:50 PM)

I had no time to post in the last thread on the covid before it has locked.
It's done on this one.[:)]



warspite1 -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/22/2020 6:52:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

I only had one gift to buy, already bought it.
Christmas is ON in my home, but it is just me and my partner. I'm probably not going anywhere this week much, and will likely be greeting the New Year before I go out again much.

Soooo looking forward to saying hello to 2021 and NEW DECADE even :)
Hoping I can squeeze a few bucks out of the budget for wargames, but, I have been binging on models recently.
warspite1

So have you bought any cool Lego sets recently Mrs W?



Oh if only I could. But they are either hard to find new sets I like, or they are so expensive. Look on Amazon, check out the brand Coby, they have some utterly cool military Legos (not Lego brand of course). But near 100 bucks for a tank or fighter is a bit rough.
warspite1

I'd love to buy some of the military stuff but its just soooo expensive as you say.

Treated myself to Diagon Alley this year. Complete with 14 figures. Hopefully they will bring out a Gringott's Bank model to go with it later...


[image]local://upfiles/28156/591E1454B239443993273E00A78580B9.jpg[/image]



RangerJoe -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/22/2020 9:58:31 PM)

I could add two more things to that air filtration unit which would really kill the Covid-19 as well as other viruses and probably some bacteria as well.



Rosseau -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/22/2020 11:51:59 PM)

Not to go OT, but the collectible stuff is kinda sweet. Reminds me of the "old" days when the wealthier side of the family (the in-laws) would collect Hummels. The only Hummels I know of kicked Soviet butt on the Eastern Front.

So, I'm sure MrsWargamer has someone special in mind to leave those collectibles to way down the road. Not to honor materialism, but it's still important to put some value into something these days.

I am still trying to figure out how to gift my wargaming collection. Fact is, I know no one outside this forum that would appreciate such a gift.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/23/2020 12:21:16 AM)

quote:

I personally think if air filtration systems actually COULD work, it would be nice for many other uses too.

Yes indeed! Not only restaurant systems are mentioned in the article, but others such as schools and office buildings. Many have outdated systems that function poorly. These systems are costly in the first place, so why not add a little more cost to help with the health factor? Would you imagine that the general public would feel more comfortable patronizing a restaurant that has newly updated 99% Covid-defeating filtration and ventilation ? Would your children be safer in a school with such a system? Could we all then return to the office [dread the thought!]?



Rosseau -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/23/2020 12:48:09 AM)

Good points. I did notice HVAC system in local hospital and doctor's office was worked on. Every public and private building should undergo such a renovation. But there's still the person who is sick, or doesn't know he or she has the virus, and shows up at said building. Vaccine still seems like the best solution, but not the only one.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/23/2020 1:04:56 PM)

Yes, no one thing will solve this pandemic, we have to do several things. This monster never goes away. Remember, Spanish Flu and Tuberculosis, to name two, are still present in our society. Vaccine and Meds will help, but Covid-19 is extremely contagious. As individuals we need to limit our exposure so as not to have our systems overwhelmed with it. We need to be more aware of the risks to our elderly and high-risk people. It's pretty easy to wear a mask and wash your hands, take some Vitamin D [especially for those that aren't spending all day outside in the sunlight], do whatever else you think you should do to keep your immune system healthy.

But we still need to get businesses open at better than 25% or 50% capacity. Make it safe[r] to go inside by getting some Ventilation and Filtration upgrades. As an earlier poster said, this helps not only with Covid but with a host of other health issues, it's a no-brainer. [8D]



MrsWargamer -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/23/2020 2:09:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rosseau

Not to go OT, but the collectible stuff is kinda sweet. Reminds me of the "old" days when the wealthier side of the family (the in-laws) would collect Hummels. The only Hummels I know of kicked Soviet butt on the Eastern Front.

So, I'm sure MrsWargamer has someone special in mind to leave those collectibles to way down the road. Not to honor materialism, but it's still important to put some value into something these days.

I am still trying to figure out how to gift my wargaming collection. Fact is, I know no one outside this forum that would appreciate such a gift.


I have a goal in life, to have sooo much 'collectible' 'stuff' at the end of my life that they truly are sad I'm gone, because now they have to deal with sorting through all of it :)

I have no illusions, of course, I KNOW I possess a lot of valuable collectibles, but I also know it would require effort to find the means to realize that value. So they will agonize over what to do with it. And in the end, they likely will mostly junk it. But I'm not spending any money on my corpse. I'm an atheist who simply won't waste money on a coffin or cremation service. When I'm dead, I am gone, done with the body. All I require is they buy a lot of beverages so they can toast my memory. And that's it. Maybe buy some pizza and have a party to celebrate my life.

I don't want a grave. What a waste of real estate. Grind me up, I'm sure you can make dogs and cats happy. I've led a life that is basically clean. My body should be fairly safe to eat. Or let medical science have me. One last decent use.



RangerJoe -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/23/2020 4:09:14 PM)

If you want to make your hobby a little profitable, consider making dioramas and selling them. Or even donating them when you start running out of space. Make a HO or N scale train set, depending upon the space that you have and the size of the models. Or do military ones even.

But leave Ken out, he is Barbie's brother.[X(]



MrsWargamer -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/23/2020 8:50:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you want to make your hobby a little profitable, consider making dioramas and selling them. Or even donating them when you start running out of space. Make a HO or N scale train set, depending upon the space that you have and the size of the models. Or do military ones even.

But leave Ken out, he is Barbie's brother.[X(]


I have pondered making Train layouts and selling for cost.
And military models completed painted a base colour and sold for cost.

I get the enjoyment of the assembly and recover the cost. I'd never do it for profit. I don't need the money.



RangerJoe -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/23/2020 10:23:03 PM)

An n scale train layout could be done coffee table size. I was thinking of making one, encasing it in plexiglass with a lock to open it, the controls outside, then donating it to an either to a Veterans hospital or an organization that provides housing for their families. That could be fun for children of all ages and the plexiglass with a lock should keep it safer. That would also be nice for a children's hospital.



MrsWargamer -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/24/2020 12:25:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

An n scale train layout could be done coffee table size. I was thinking of making one, encasing it in plexiglass with a lock to open it, the controls outside, then donating it to an either to a Veterans hospital or an organization that provides housing for their families. That could be fun for children of all ages and the plexiglass with a lock should keep it safer. That would also be nice for a children's hospital.


Very nice concept



RangerJoe -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/24/2020 3:09:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

An n scale train layout could be done coffee table size. I was thinking of making one, encasing it in plexiglass with a lock to open it, the controls outside, then donating it to an either to a Veterans hospital or an organization that provides housing for their families. That could be fun for children of all ages and the plexiglass with a lock should keep it safer. That would also be nice for a children's hospital.


Very nice concept


If you do that, save any dead, dried flower petals but still colorful to use for the landscaping. Like a red Maple Leaf on a white background . . .



Pvt_Grunt -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/24/2020 6:31:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

I only had one gift to buy, already bought it.
Christmas is ON in my home, but it is just me and my partner. I'm probably not going anywhere this week much, and will likely be greeting the New Year before I go out again much.

Soooo looking forward to saying hello to 2021 and NEW DECADE even :)
Hoping I can squeeze a few bucks out of the budget for wargames, but, I have been binging on models recently.
warspite1

So have you bought any cool Lego sets recently Mrs W?



Oh if only I could. But they are either hard to find new sets I like, or they are so expensive. Look on Amazon, check out the brand Coby, they have some utterly cool military Legos (not Lego brand of course). But near 100 bucks for a tank or fighter is a bit rough.
warspite1

I'd love to buy some of the military stuff but its just soooo expensive as you say.

Treated myself to Diagon Alley this year. Complete with 14 figures. Hopefully they will bring out a Gringott's Bank model to go with it later...


[image]local://upfiles/28156/591E1454B239443993273E00A78580B9.jpg[/image]

quote:

Coby,

Oh my.............


[image]local://upfiles/24039/5668B941AE5942AD9A7F168A484D2549.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/24/2020 8:43:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pvt_Grunt


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

I only had one gift to buy, already bought it.
Christmas is ON in my home, but it is just me and my partner. I'm probably not going anywhere this week much, and will likely be greeting the New Year before I go out again much.

Soooo looking forward to saying hello to 2021 and NEW DECADE even :)
Hoping I can squeeze a few bucks out of the budget for wargames, but, I have been binging on models recently.
warspite1

So have you bought any cool Lego sets recently Mrs W?



Oh if only I could. But they are either hard to find new sets I like, or they are so expensive. Look on Amazon, check out the brand Coby, they have some utterly cool military Legos (not Lego brand of course). But near 100 bucks for a tank or fighter is a bit rough.
warspite1

I'd love to buy some of the military stuff but its just soooo expensive as you say.

Treated myself to Diagon Alley this year. Complete with 14 figures. Hopefully they will bring out a Gringott's Bank model to go with it later...


[image]local://upfiles/28156/591E1454B239443993273E00A78580B9.jpg[/image]

quote:

Coby,

Oh my.............


[image]local://upfiles/24039/5668B941AE5942AD9A7F168A484D2549.jpg[/image]
warspite1

Cool [:)] Doesn't seem too expensive either....



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/24/2020 2:49:59 PM)

Patients with COVID-19 are experiencing an array of effects on the brain. It is estimated that at least half of the patients in the COVID-19 units have neurological symptoms, including Confusion and Trouble focusing.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/how-does-coronavirus-affect-the-brain



MrsWargamer -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (12/24/2020 5:07:41 PM)

I'm 58. I have trouble remembering why I walked in to the kitchen most of the time.
I have trouble focusing, but that my disability.
The world has always confused me.

But my IQ is so high I have trouble accepting it really is that high.
I've likely forgotten more than most will ever learn.
Credentials? I don't need credentials. People work FOR me, not the other way around.

Covid doesn't scare me much.
Hysteria, that scares me.
Ignorance definitely scares me.
Foolish faith in unsustainable thinking truly bothers me.

The world COULD be so much better, that it isn't, is all the evidence we need, as proof that our society is not so clever.

Covid, it has been given an odd amount of attention I believe.
On YouTube, in 'Trending' it's all we speak about.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (1/12/2021 2:29:46 AM)

Vitamins to Prevent COVID???
A nice video with a doctor discussing some good intel concerning Vitamin use with relation to COVID-19:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2V4U218osU



MrsWargamer -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (1/12/2021 3:14:21 AM)

They've tried lockdowns. Ain't working. They've tried masks. Ain't working. They're trying curfews, they won't work either.
The thing is, if you close small stores, and leave big ones open, there's no point closing the small ones. You can't leave schools open, and expect closing bars to be enough.

If you put enough people together, some wearing medical masks, some wearing handkerchiefs, some using face shields, some just refusing to wear anything, you have NOT got a controlled environment.
We have tried a lot of ideas, but they have not been done with anything like consistency or dedication. And they shouldn't work. So I'm not surprised they haven't.

I'm fortunate. I'm largely stuck at home. I see almost no one. The only people I have been hanging out with, are either made of plastic, or have fur :) Covid has not had an easy time reaching me.
I have never been tested. I'm not in a rush to be. I feel fine. I haven't been hanging out with groups of unmasked people. I haven't been hanging out with people at all really. I buy groceries, and I go back home. It sucks, it's boring. But it's at least fairly safe.

Covid will prey on us, until we conquer it with a vaccine. I don't expect that to happen this month, or this spring. Maybe by the end of 2021 we will have conquered the hysteria, and the reluctance. But I expect covid will be like a yearly flu shot too. Covid, it happened, it's going to be hard to eliminate it. Utterly.

I see covid as forcing me to go back to wargaming.
I think it is also interfering with me spending money on clothes.



RangerJoe -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (1/12/2021 3:24:09 AM)

Those handkerchiefs nor the neck gaiters actually work to stop Covid-19 (or the cold or flu for that matter) since they make any aerosol particles smaller which travel farther and stay in the air longer. Verify this on-line if you want, the information is out there.



Freyr Oakenshield -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (1/12/2021 11:02:53 AM)

I couldn't agree more!



Erik Rutins -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (1/12/2021 1:55:26 PM)

The CDC's recent newsletter included this article regarding ventilation:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/Improving-Ventilation-Home.html

Air filtration and ventilation seems likely to limit a "super spreading event" but less likely to help avoid infection in the moment from an individual in close physical proximity. As with other measures, they seem most effective when used as a layered approach. In other words, use a type of mask that really works and fit it on your face properly, use some eye protection, stay out of close proximity (>6 feet), some studies suggest (>10 feet given aerosolization of virus particles), wash hands properly, have good ventilation or be outdoors, etc. Each of those steps done correctly will shift the odds in your favor.

As a board wargamer, I look at each of the above as a column shift, with DRMs for how well each is done. I might still lose the battle if I do all of them, but it would be one heck of an unlucky die roll. As a miniature wargamer and painter, I figure if I put on proper mask and eye protection to dremel or to prime or spray paint, I'll do the same to keep this virus away. I don't want it in my lungs or eyes any more than I want varnish in there. As a computer wargamer, I use the available data on virus prevalence and spread to help inform me on the best choice of locale for any unavoidable tasks or errands. This reality sucks, but you have to adapt and learn new skills to navigate it in the best way possible to get back to the "normal" (or at least something close to it) on the other side.

Regards,

- Erik



Erik Rutins -> RE: Air filtration. Important? (1/12/2021 2:00:36 PM)

For any who may be wondering "what constitutes an effective mask" because there are certainly a lot of ineffective ones out there, these articles will give you a good idea. Obviously, a N-95 if you can get it is great, but there are other alternatives that do pretty well. One of the key take-aways is that whatever the mask, fitting it properly so it's snug and you're not breathing in around the edges or up past the sides of your nose instead of through the mask is quite important. Look for a mask that is multiple layers, ideally with a good filter, with an adjustable nose bridge and adjustable ear loops for a snug fit.

Also, no mask is 100% perfect protection and other studies have shown that in high risk situations, eye protection is important as well, as the virus can enter through the mucus membranes there if it can't get in through the mouth.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2774266

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2774265

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2769443



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