Production Planning - Unable to change orders (Full Version)

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eouellet -> Production Planning - Unable to change orders (12/28/2020 3:45:49 PM)

I am using the latest version (4.02.01.01), and the Production Planning form is problematic. I can't change from produce to idle, as after re-computing the system defaults back to produce, and vice versa. I am not using the oil option. If I try to force the convoy route, then I get a Fatal Error.

In particular, I am trying to turn the CW Persian oil to idle, because by default the system use the French convoys for this CW oil, and this really screws up the convoy setup. Also, I am trying to change the French Production Planning form where the Hanoi and Senegal resources are turned to produce, to force using French convoys, but after recomputing, the system puts them back to idle.

I strongly suspect that the Production Planning optimisation routine is putting oil first, no matter what, even if the oil option is not selected.



Centuur -> RE: Production Planning - Unable to change orders (12/28/2020 9:12:49 PM)

RAW:

If, during production (see 13.6), it is possible for the promised
resources (or build points) to be delivered then they must be delivered.

This means that you cannot change the Persian oil point to "idle"...



eouellet -> RE: Production Planning - Unable to change orders (12/28/2020 9:28:25 PM)

I see what you are saying, but there is no trade involve in this situation. Check Lending Resource form...



eouellet -> RE: Production Planning - Unable to change orders (12/28/2020 10:13:28 PM)

After further checking, yes it is the mandatory Persian trade to CW.

If you don't use the oil option, it is a real nuisance, as it uses other allies convoys. Even without convoys around, including East Med, it is going through Russia and the convoys chain from Murmansk. What a pain!

Somehow, it was not a problem before (ver 3), but I guess now the rules are respected. Also, maybe the oil hex in Persia was changed to the one on the railroad track (80,77), making all this mess!




michaelbaldur -> RE: Production Planning - Unable to change orders (12/28/2020 10:48:21 PM)


I had a easy fix o production planning, double the amount of CW convoys.

then the production work, kinda

if you want I can use debug to give you more convoys



eouellet -> RE: Production Planning - Unable to change orders (12/28/2020 11:00:30 PM)

Thanks, but I will soldering on with the existing setup!

The rules do not specify which Persian oil hex is to be supplied to the CW. In theory, one should be able to pick which one, but this might create a lot trouble with the code, create a new form, etc. Another work around is for the Soviet Union to declare war to Persia, and the Axis not aligning it. This is loosely historical.






Centuur -> RE: Production Planning - Unable to change orders (12/29/2020 1:57:23 PM)

The solution for this problem is to send it through the Persian Gulf to India. When playing without oil and saving rules, that's the way to set up.



eouellet -> RE: Production Planning - Unable to change orders (12/29/2020 2:29:09 PM)

It is one way to do it, but it only works if the Japanese are not attacking these convoys. In a solo game, I can make an agreement with myself about that. But to really kill this problem, I find that a Soviet DoW to Persia, without Axis alignment is more effective. If the US roll is bad, just re-do it until it is fine. Then, the one oil on the railroad track can be turned to idle.



Courtenay -> RE: Production Planning - Unable to change orders (12/29/2020 3:21:42 PM)

I think MWiF is correctly implementing the rules here, and should not be worked around.

In my opinion, a player does not have the option to pick which resource is being sent. If there are multiple resources that could be picked, and one can be delivered and the others can't, then the one that can be delivered must be picked. Trade agreements must be fulfilled if possible. The one that can be delivered fulfills the agreement, and so must be picked. The player has no control over a neutral country, so the country picks the resource that fulfills the agreement. It wants to sell you its oil, so it insures its delivery. The fact that you don't want it is no problem of theirs.

Of course, my track record at interpreting WiF rules is not great, so I could be wrong here. (See my .sig. [:)]) But that is how I read the rule.



eouellet -> RE: Production Planning - Unable to change orders (12/29/2020 3:29:19 PM)

Well, then the French and Soviet merchant navy could also say that it is not their problem either, and they should not carry it.[8D]



eouellet -> RE: Production Planning - Unable to change orders (12/29/2020 3:42:46 PM)

More seriously, the rules at 13.6.1 states "Active major powers may contribute to the convoy chain of any other major power on the same side." The key word here is "may", there is no obligation to do so, only a possibility.

And then, at 5.1 on Trade it states: " Where possible, these resources (or build points) are transported by rail (see 13.6.1). If this isn't possible, the recipient must provide the convoys required to receive them (exception: the joint Japan-USA convoy, see above). If the recipient cannot provide the convoys, they do not receive the resources (or build points)". Here again, the key word is the "recipient", implying that other powers are in no obligation to carry the trade.



eouellet -> RE: Production Planning - Unable to change orders (12/29/2020 5:02:54 PM)

For MWIF, the fix that would create the least amount of upset to the code would be to have priorities changed, where each power used their convoys for their own resources and trade first, and then allow other powers to use any spare convoy capacity, other's trade having priority at this point only. If one power wants to offer its convoys at its own expense, then it can turn manually normally convoyed resources to idle to create convoy spare capacity. Then, the use of other powers' convoys is done by choice, not by obligation, and this would be in line with the rules.



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