FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (Full Version)

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thomasharvey -> FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/21/2021 9:04:29 PM)

Here are some screen shots from turn 26 which is September 17, 1941. this first one is the Leningrad front which shows it is now a static line for the most part.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/D068B0D0D7B54A3E9F6D824D6C66A050.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/21/2021 9:13:23 PM)

Turn 26 9 17/41 This shows the Vyazma front which also starting to become static. It is the road to Moscow and must be defended.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/3CEA0C5DFD33428191ED010DD068B37A.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/21/2021 9:14:36 PM)

T26 9/17/41 This shows the Bryansk Front where the Axis is trying to turn the flank of the Vyazma front and the road to Moscow.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/35C7C1B14A6C4C2B8948D2BF5C1E92D5.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/21/2021 9:24:34 PM)

T26 9/17/41 This shows the Kharkov front as only a strong point. The Axis is already well across the Dnepr so a solid line is not yet possible. The plan is to slow the Axis into the mud and winter.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/53308F5A645E44C7B7178FA659C895E6.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/21/2021 9:30:07 PM)

T26 9/17/41 Here are another two Strong points with Zaporozhe and Dnepropetrovsk being encircled.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/231AE75D85E542FD94034B34E69D2778.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/21/2021 9:34:11 PM)

T26 9/17/41 Finally Sevastopol is now cut off but in supply at the port. Sevastopol must now hold out a long time.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/58190F649D444F64B89A70DFDC76818D.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/24/2021 1:04:52 AM)

T29 9/28/41 Leningrad Front shows the Axis trying to envelop Leningrad on the left and the right side of the screen shot. Next month is mud so I think he will be stopped here soon as well as all the fronts.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/BB38152A58B7427297E32247BDD02779.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/24/2021 1:07:35 AM)

T29 9/28/41 Here is Vyazma showing little change.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/039B5925BA1E40AE884223FC39313125.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/24/2021 1:11:03 AM)

T29 9/28/41 The Bryansk front shows fighting in the north of the screen but I think mud will come before the Axis can close a large pocket here.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/511FEA56AE3E41019898A6DF213E6CDE.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/24/2021 1:15:46 AM)

T29 9/28/41 Kharkov is developing into a large battle for a strongpoint. As seen there are other strongpoints that also can turn into pitched battles of delay.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/BF28BDDAC01945CA95B066AABCF65395.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/24/2021 1:19:18 AM)

T29 9/28/41 The Zaporozhe front shows more strongpoint activity. The mud and distance will slow the Axis a great deal before the winter.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/ADF90DFAB8344EC392BCCD2C49900CB9.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/24/2021 1:22:24 AM)

T29 9/29/41 Sevastopol is not holding very well. It looks like it will be taken shortly by the Axis.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/2B15A5AF2AF0494D8332E8537A5B81CE.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/26/2021 12:38:21 AM)

T31 10/5/41 Sevastopol front. The Axis managed to take the only supply port of the Sevastopol pocket and the Soviets were unable to retake it as seen. The two German units holding it were eliminated but the turn ended before any Soviet troops were able to move in. It looks grim from the Soviet side here. The Axis had a blowtorch style attack which could not be stopped.

Mud will arrive on turn 33. That will slow things down considerably. Most other fronts had little change. One more turn of good weather for the Axis next turn.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/245E6BF8C8134C728E5DE843ADF98795.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/27/2021 12:41:07 AM)

End of turn 32, the mud starts on turn 33. The picture shows the Red Army getting ready for the start of mud on the Moscow front.




[image]local://upfiles/50703/6E485CA8DB6D4CE4BCFD92C005150588.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/27/2021 12:43:58 AM)

Here is the big picture on turn32. It shows the Germans attempting a massive pocket. With mud on the next turn we should have a big battle there.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/75E2E418B4614304931FC72909EC5590.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/27/2021 12:46:16 AM)

On turn 32, October 8, 1941, here is a closer view of the potential battlefield.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/70A126A84B8D4E9FAE93346DEDEC6FA1.jpg[/image]



Edwire -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/27/2021 1:50:28 PM)

Very exciting, thanks for the screenshots! Looks like the German will advance as historical, plus Sevastopool..

There doesn't seem to be anything on the Soviet southern front?



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/27/2021 11:10:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwire

Very exciting, thanks for the screenshots! Looks like the German will advance as historical, plus Sevastopool..

There doesn't seem to be anything on the Soviet southern front?


Turn 33, first turn of mud in October.

Here is a large view of the Southern Front. Only the Kharkov front shows resistance. The Axis went for Sevastopol instead of heading deeper south so there is no need to set up fronts that are not needed. With the mud followed by winter, the fronts will not change much for a while. However, there will be plenty of WWI style fighting.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/979A0C59B4F846ABA8E56EE00C4BAE22.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/27/2021 11:16:46 PM)

T33 October 12, 1941. This view shows the battle for the Roslavl Pocket. Since it is now mud, the Germans have lost their boost and movement advantages. This will be followed by winter. Note the rail line right to the front on the east side of the picture that will fuel a mud offensive.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/F6C1EF3C27A24AEC93135F83D36D9764.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/27/2021 11:21:07 PM)

T33 October 12, 1941. Here is Kharkov showing another mud offensive area.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/3ED9E6DA19834E299F0A8A21D7AA2BFF.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/29/2021 8:25:25 PM)

T35 October 19, 1941. Both sides are barely moving in the mud. The Soviets are pushing towards Kharkov to take it back.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/577D91746BAB4A0081062EC9CA563052.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/29/2021 8:28:53 PM)

T35 October 19, 1941 At the Roslavl pocket the Soviets are pushing the northern pincer back.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/AAC6E4F9E1DB4D53BEE8D845486D1ACD.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/29/2021 8:30:15 PM)

T35 October 19, 1941 Roslavl pocket closer view.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/CAB4C7A255D2447A9DE8073E8C3FE951.jpg[/image]



fogger -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/31/2021 6:13:29 AM)

Tom, there would appear to be at least 2 PzGren divisions, 2 SS divisions, 1 Cav division plus 2 Inf divisions your southern flank and you are not showing any reserves. Do you think you can close the pocket around the 4(?) Bn's on the northern flank and then create a 2nd pocket and move reserves south before the snow?



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/31/2021 8:37:45 PM)

Hi Fogger

Unfortunately my plans for the mud offensives have been scrapped. I estimate more than 50% of my units can not move due to reorganization. If you look closely you can see the orange band across many of the units showing. It is clearly an increase in that condition over the better weather turns. So I just look to move the front a few hexes that is adjacent to my active rail lines. Movement in mud is very restricted as well. The Germans have the same problem of course.

My southern front has next to nothing. Many units are still stuck deep in the rear with the mud keeping them from clearing a path for new units to even appear. Rail movement is cut in half on distance as well.

I don't think I will encircle many German units. However, one exception was the encirclement and destruction of an entire Panzer regiment that had 200 tanks in the northern pincer I have been pushing back. The panzer probably could not move at all. It was in slow motion. You can see it in post 19 cut off. It was later destroyed when out of supply.

Tom



Lobster -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (1/31/2021 9:20:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thomasharvey
Rail movement is cut in half on distance as well.


[&:] Why? I can understand the Germans. But the Soviets?



fogger -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (2/1/2021 11:20:39 AM)

snow covering the tracks and thus reducing the speed of the train? Just a guess



Lobster -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (2/1/2021 1:35:06 PM)

Snow can cause derailments but only under certain conditions. It has to sit for a few days. It has to be compacted. It can get between points in a switch and become iced. If it sits for a few days it becomes compacted. The engine will run up over the compacted snow and become separated from the track. Considering the work the Soviet rails were experiencing this probably happened but not often enough to force them to reduce rail by half. And a 70+ ton 0-10-0 never went very fast anyway. Too unstable at speeds over 50mph.

The Germans did have problems because their locomotives were not insulated and they lost steam pressure because of that.

Anyway, this is the first time I've seen anyone reduce rail because of winter. Was just curious about the logic. [;)]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (2/1/2021 2:04:07 PM)

The reduction in rail movement is a result of increasing ZOC cost to 200 in mud. This cuts movement of a unit by half BEFORE the unit moves. That results in rail movement cut also by half since it is based on the movement of the unit. These 4 screen shots show a Soviet unit that has not moved in many turns. The mud effects start on turn 33. The screen shots show the unit on turn 32 having movement of 25 and a rail movement of 277. On turn 37 it has movement of 12 and rail movement of 138.

A mud hex costs an additional +2 for foot movement and +3 for all others. You can see many more mud hexes in the screen shots after the mud starts.

In reality unless a mud slide covers the rails, mud has no effect on rail traffic.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/23AAAEFB79A5437AA61BAC60A5700016.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey (2/1/2021 2:06:00 PM)

Here is rail movement available on turn 32 for the same unit.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/4A725D92EF8B4B62923EDEA61FE2AFB4.jpg[/image]



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