Discover <=> Research/Design priorities (Full Version)

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Arralen -> Discover <=> Research/Design priorities (2/4/2021 11:59:19 AM)

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Is there any reason not to run all the time like this? 
Discover          0%
Research/Design 100%



Soar_Slitherine -> RE: Discover <=> Research/Design priorities (2/4/2021 12:34:13 PM)

There's diminishing returns to BP investment beyond 100 BP per turn per council task, and putting at least 1% investment into a task trains up the director's associated skill. You might also end up rolling some techs that aren't useful in your situation, in which case you have to waste some PP flipping the priorities if you didn't invest enough in discovery proactively. I do normally keep the model design council on 1% discovery/99% design, though.



newageofpower -> RE: Discover <=> Research/Design priorities (2/4/2021 12:36:51 PM)

That's pretty inefficient because of BP limits.

And despite BP efficiency limits, the opposite is done; i.e. Tech3 starts, pre-Solar Panels, most high tier players run 100% discovery and refuse to resesrcha anything that might open other non-solar panel techs to discovery.



BlueTemplar -> RE: Discover <=> Research/Design priorities (2/4/2021 1:15:37 PM)

quote:

putting at least 1% investment into a task trains up the director's associated skill

Oh, nice, I was already doing this for stratagem-generating tasks to be able to see at a glance what stratagems *can* be currently generated, as well as prospecting (I tend to forget to check each turn whether there are new resource spots to prospect on newly acquired hexes).

I guess that you're doing this because the (chances of) skill increase aren't proportional to task % or BP invested ?



Soar_Slitherine -> RE: Discover <=> Research/Design priorities (2/4/2021 1:27:19 PM)

Actually, now that I look at the manual, it implies that characters only gain experience points for event- or stratagem-related skill rolls, not for the job-related rolls that they make every round (there is simply a base amount of XP gain per turn). Making use of a skill does make them more likely to put experience points into improving it, though.



Maerchen -> RE: Discover <=> Research/Design priorities (2/4/2021 5:02:18 PM)

I want to point out that starting at tech level III, it is crucial to get energy tech asap, so might want to go with a different setup.

For further information, I made a summary of the priorities of the research councils here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2314732568




BlueTemplar -> RE: Discover <=> Research/Design priorities (2/4/2021 10:15:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soar_Slitherine
Actually, now that I look at the manual, it implies that characters only gain experience points for event- or stratagem-related skill rolls, not for the job-related rolls that they make every round (there is simply a base amount of XP gain per turn).

This is not what this guide suggests. Who's right ?



Maerchen -> RE: Discover <=> Research/Design priorities (2/5/2021 6:23:13 AM)

When in doubt, of cource the manual. I will have to update the science guide, thanks for pointing that out.



BlueTemplar -> RE: Discover <=> Research/Design priorities (2/5/2021 9:50:40 AM)

Well, the manual might be outdated too (it was last updated for 1.06 ?), or even wrong !



zgrssd -> RE: Discover <=> Research/Design priorities (2/6/2021 12:42:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arralen

.
Is there any reason not to run all the time like this? 
Discover          0%
Research/Design 100%



How about: Actually getting any techs that mater?

- If you research 3 techs from any one group, new groups are unlocked. Meaning more can be discovered, meaning less of the things you want are to be discovered.
- The linear techs have a effect every percent they progress, but also increase in cost every percent of progress. There is no real way to "finish" a linear tech in a game, so you would always get stuck on the first one that is being researched
- not all Councils will transfer unused dsicovery onto research or vice-versa. Some will just bank it
- as Soar already said: Investing more then 100 BP in any single Slider category, has diminishing returns. It evne used to be a hard cap, but now it si a bit softer.

The reason not to do it? How about first looking for a reason to do it?



FarAway Sooner -> RE: Discover <=> Research/Design priorities (2/6/2021 5:02:23 PM)

You can't research a Tech until you discover it, can you? I've always gone 100% discovery at game start because, if I allocate points to research, they get wasted because I have no tech to research. Council roles like "Model Development" (Technician) that never get to play a stratagem also see a steady rise in points.

Every person I've ever put in charge of a research role has seen a steady increase in their Inventor (Discovery) and Science (Research) abilities, even if they had none to begin with. My sense (and I know enough here to be dangerous) from other threads is that skill progression involves Usage Points and XP points. I'm not sure if Usage points increase the chance of a character applying XP to a particular skill, or if they apply a bonus when you roll for that skill, but they definitely play a role.

If you see an asterisk besides a skill, that means you have unused usage points there. At least, that's what the game says.



zgrssd -> RE: Discover <=> Research/Design priorities (2/6/2021 6:19:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FarAway Sooner

You can't research a Tech until you discover it, can you? I've always gone 100% discovery at game start because, if I allocate points to research, they get wasted because I have no tech to research. Council roles like "Model Development" (Technician) that never get to play a stratagem also see a steady rise in points.


Yes, you need to discover before you can research.

There should be a automatic transfer of points if there is nothing to research/discover. But for some areas, the points get banked instead.
Also there is of course still the Diminishing returns at 100+ BP



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