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Zemke -> Newly Got The Game, Questions (2/27/2021 8:02:42 PM)

I learn by doing, so my first game, I dove in and quickly muffed it up.

In the second game, I stuck with or did till there was no metal left I could get. In the game, I was able to fight two wars, and get a good-sized Army composed of (1) A so-called "Corps" made up of individual regiments, (2) A Corps of light Inf, and about four Battalions of light nonmotorized Inf. Anyway, all my metal mines ran dry, then the two I went to War for ran dry and no one around me hade any mine, except one guy, and I was still in a War with the last guy and quickly running out of Ammo.

QUESTION? What do you do when you run out of Metal?



Soar_Slitherine -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (2/27/2021 8:21:59 PM)

If you pick up the Soil Metal Filtration tech in the left-side branch of the tech tree, you can construct facilities capable of producing metal without the need for deposits. They are a bit expensive to set up, requiring a significant initial investment of metal + some high tech to get them running, but since metal deposits are often scarce, they're a common means of metal production in the lategame.

EDIT: In case you haven't seen it already, the Economic Council has a Prospecting task that enables you to discover any hidden metal deposits in your territory. The Prospecting report under Reports -> Overviews will tell you if there are still any undiscovered deposits around.



eddieballgame -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (2/27/2021 8:33:11 PM)

Some planet types are better than others per resources.
Depending on the size, type, age, etc...it will make a difference.
That being said, have you checked 'ruins' & the Recycling Facilities?
Have you used the 'Strategm Cards' to locate more sites under the 'Zones' category?
Also, there is the 'Traders' which could assist you per shortages, to include 'Credits'.

To answer your question what do you do when you run out of metal...panic. [:)]

The game is outstanding & you made a great purchase...imho.




Zemke -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (2/27/2021 8:46:54 PM)

Thanks for that, I dought I have the metal to set it up now, as I only have a few hundred left, and the need for Ammo is great, so looks like that game of binge playing for 4 days is pretty much over.
Also, I never got anyway near that far in the tech tree, only turned the first row and the two middle blocks of the second-row green. Seems like I need to focus more on research.



zgrssd -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (2/27/2021 10:57:27 PM)

Let's see:
- There is very little reason to use Formation Sizes beyond Brigade. 5 Brigades are more usefull then 1 Corps, as the Corp can only be in one place at once. The one reason is to attack something really well fortified, but in that case a light Tank Brigade propably does better then a whole Infantry Corps
- The Metal sources are: Metal Mines, Recyclers, Soil Filtration technology
- You can save ammo (and thus metal) by using Gas Powered Small Arms. And ultimately, Lasers
- For vehicles, try to get Composite Armor. It is half the weight and replaces a lot of Metal cost with Rare Metal cost
- Avoid ammo guzzlers like Airforce, Artillery, Machineguns. Also units need 3 times as much ammo attacking as defending
- While Militia needs your Logistics Network to get supplies, you get reimbursed for everything unit of Food, Fuel and Ammo they consume. So for scarce resources, everything they use is in effect free
- I asume you had a Economic Council prospecting for resources? Had they really seaerched all zones fully?
- Did you have any private Metal Mines or Recycler you did not Nationalize? While they take the same out of the ground, you only get a fraction as a from of Tax. With a scarce resource you can not allow it to be in Private hands. Ever.

General tips for new players:
- consider Robinson Crusoe start. The minors and animals can be plenty dangerous
- Siwa class planet
- Tech Level 4 (3 is extra hard)
- Beginner difficulty, maybe Normal



Zemke -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/2/2021 6:00:10 AM)

Another question....How do you change a Zone from unincorporated to incorporated? I could swear I did this once before, but now for the life of me I cannot seem to figure out how to do it.

As to the above, in that particular game, I ran out of metal, could not buy ammo, and was at war...so things were not going very well. I started a new game, and have been doing MUCH better using your advice above.

Also, the more I play this game, the more I like it...I was not so sure at first, but it is much deeper than it appears. Some things kind of get under my skin, like the OOB research. You would think that Brigade level OOB would come before Army, and more combined arms OOB, unless I have just not reached any yet or don't get something, both very real possibilities. Combined arms OOBs have been the norm for well over a hundred years now, and as a matter of fact, the US Army now have Mech Inf and Armor Companies (2 and 2) mixed at the Battalion level, at least according to FM3-90.6 Sept 2010. (I used to work in the same Office where these manuals are written at Fort Benning, Ga...in another life)

Anyway, I am hook on this game pretty bad so far.



Maerchen -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/2/2021 11:13:36 AM)

Call hovernor, zone orders, right side for incorporated zone. Costs 5PP to activate.



Soar_Slitherine -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/2/2021 1:05:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zemke
Some things kind of get under my skin, like the OOB research. You would think that Brigade level OOB would come before Army, and more combined arms OOB, unless I have just not reached any yet or don't get something, both very real possibilities. Combined arms OOBs have been the norm for well over a hundred years now, and as a matter of fact, the US Army now have Mech Inf and Armor Companies (2 and 2) mixed at the Battalion level, at least according to FM3-90.6 Sept 2010. (I used to work in the same Office where these manuals are written at Fort Benning, Ga...in another life)

You usually unlock all three formation sizes when you research an OOB (though I've heard there are a few OOBs that only exist in specific sizes, not sure why). OOBs mixing armor and mechanized infantry are included in the game - check this thread if you want detailed info on OOBs.



BlueTemplar -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/2/2021 1:56:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soar_Slitherine
(though I've heard there are a few OOBs that only exist in specific sizes, not sure why)

Oh really, which ones would that be ?



zgrssd -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/2/2021 3:22:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soar_Slitherine
(though I've heard there are a few OOBs that only exist in specific sizes, not sure why)

Oh really, which ones would that be ?

All the ones where Vic messed up the OOB's and upgrade/downgrad links [:)]

There is not a single automatically created OOB in the Entire game. Every last one is handcrafted by Vic. Including the chance of handcrafted mistakes. Like Siege Infantry Brigades having 8 Infantry, 1 Artillery instead of the usual 8/2 or 9/1 mix.
He really should do himself and us a favor and just change it to semi-automatic creation of OOB patterns.



Zemke -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/3/2021 2:25:53 AM)

Thanks for the help, while playing I happened to see how to do it, cannot I believe I missed it.



Zemke -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/3/2021 2:45:03 AM)

Another problem that has cropped up in my game I thought I was doing so well at, well several problems which I think are related, maybe someone can shed some light on what is going on.
All the below happened in order over several turns:
1. Grew to the point where I had 13 Zones, about half were minors who joined me. I thought hey this is great!
2. Ran into the usual growth issues of needing to build government buildings and so on, then noticed I was running out of food, quickly, then power.
3. Started the builds to fix power and food, and noticed not enough workers were wanting to work on those projects, so I raised wages a bit, imported more workers, and so on.
4. Then I noticed I was running out of water!
5. I have gone from 47K in funds to 0 in about 4 turns.
6. Raised taxes, built two new ZOnes where there is a lot of rain, built rail to move the water, seems the water issue has abated and we will see about the fund's problem.

I cannot seem to even think about going to War, as I am fixing one crisis or another constantly, and would not want to go to war unless my country is stable. Is this normal for this game? It is getting a little bit frustrating, however, I am sure it is because I do not fully understand the interactions of systems fully, yet overall I feel it is because I grew to fast. Thoughts?

Last, not sure how much longer I can play this current game with my potato computer, the AI turns are now taking around 15 min to complete.



zgrssd -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/3/2021 7:35:16 AM)

According to the Handbook: Water, Fuel, Electricity, IP and some other stuff travels on the Logistics network for free. You need a connection, but similar to assets no capacity is used.
Note that this only applies to Fuel and Power send to Zones/Assets. Apparently it does cost logistics when sending the stuff to Troops.

Usually it is better to focus as much production as possible in the Capitol city. Higher tier buildings (except logistics for the time being) are more efficient in workers and intake resources.

Food is a exception:
- Emergency Food travels for free (it is asumed private citizens go and grab it)
- Public Food for worker does use Logistics points, unles produced locally
- If you can feed your local workers using nothing but the kickbacks/in kind tax from Private Assets, use it. As long as they have the Private Credits, the Private Economy will always try to cover the entire population using private assets.
- Otherwise it can be beneficial to place food production all over your empire, so that you only need to ship around water and power - wich are free - rather then food.

Additional note:
- Minors with cities do not need any logistics or production, all they need is a unbroken line from their city to their Militia forces - distance is irrelevant. This will become a issue when you take over, as they got no logistics assets there but you suddenly have to feed a lot of soldiers and workers around there.
- All the SHQ storage comes from Zones. The zones try to only keep 1 turn of consumption (2 for Food), the rest is send to the SHQ. However that means a uptick in demand can starve the SHQ of storage capacaity.



newageofpower -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/3/2021 7:48:57 AM)

Generally, I try to ensure I can rush-build a railhead and railway in 2 turns or less before I annex/unite a Minor. The turn I take over, I immediately order their militia stacks back towards logistics to reduce strain.

Also, abuse traffic signs to get LIS to flow into the minor.



Soar_Slitherine -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/3/2021 12:58:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

According to the Handbook: Water, Fuel, Electricity, IP and some other stuff travels on the Logistics network for free. You need a connection, but similar to assets no capacity is used.
Note that this only applies to Fuel and Power send to Zones/Assets. Apparently it does cost logistics when sending the stuff to Troops.

That's incorrect - we've discussed this. Power and fuel are transported at no logistics point cost (unless over air bridge) whether they're going to zones or units.



Zemke -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/3/2021 8:55:46 PM)

I know this thread is turning a little into a personal AAR of my learning process in this game, but hey, just sharing, and if you think I am messing something up, please tell me, I have a VERY thick skin.

I was able to recover from the above crisis by building two new zones where it rains a lot with a rail connection, raising taxes, and building/upgrading farms. FOr the record, I am playing on "Normal" settings.



newageofpower -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/3/2021 11:53:14 PM)

Generally, you don't want to build Public Farms cause they're insanely population inefficient; you want to have a level 2ish hydroponics in your capital (but don't push it past IV unless you're going biofuel) and the rest of the food needs can be met by in-kind-tax from Private Farms



Zemke -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/6/2021 2:03:10 PM)

The latest issue I seem to be having is pissed off workers, more or less all the time, as I cannot seem to keep up the "happy buildings" because of a constant shortage of workers.

The other big problem I have had for several turns is that I cannot put replacements into my units. For example, my Recon unit is sitting on a rail with 1000pts (current) and it will not let it get any replacements. The only thing I can figure is aI need more points on the lines, so I am building/upgrading my rail stations. But this has really gotten old, because due to the worker problem, I cannot get the rail stations built. It has been at least 10 turns now.



redrum68 -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/6/2021 2:31:01 PM)

@Zemke - Are you sure you have enough logistics points from where the unit is all the way back to your SHQ?



zgrssd -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/6/2021 2:34:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zemke

The latest issue I seem to be having is pissed off workers, more or less all the time, as I cannot seem to keep up the "happy buildings" because of a constant shortage of workers.


What exactly is lited as the reasons for the worker happiness drops?
Also, there are no "Happy buildings". There are QOL buildings, but buffing QOL can actually cause more problems down the line. I really wish there was a way to limit how far this can go.

quote:

The other big problem I have had for several turns is that I cannot put replacements into my units. For example, my Recon unit is sitting on a rail with 1000pts (current) and it will not let it get any replacements. The only thing I can figure is aI need more points on the lines, so I am building/upgrading my rail stations. But this has really gotten old, because due to the worker problem, I cannot get the rail stations built. It has been at least 10 turns now.

The Bottleneck Display will tell you exactly where the issue in your Logistics network is.

I was convinced that nobody could get anything off the Rail Network, outside the Stations. But I was corrected here.

However it might be that only the lower 10% of the capacity (the part that does not need a end-point) is avalible for getting stuff off mid-track.
In either case, I would never treat Rails as a supply distirbutor. I use it to get stuff transported between cities, for the cities truckstop do to the final distribution.



BlueTemplar -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/6/2021 3:50:12 PM)

You might want to consider raising your worker salaries, at least temporarily ?



zgrssd -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/6/2021 4:12:14 PM)

Maybe you are out of money to pay the workers?

The Economics System has consumption before production and then retreival. That means you can not enough in storage, be unable to afford all the expenses, receive the penalty, but then get >0 as income - hiding the fact that you indeed went bankrupt there for a second. And this cycle fully applies to Credits as well.
And AFAIK, there is currently no proper warning in the Tooltip for this happening. The Zone Log hoever does mention something like "Failed to fullfill promises about Salary".



BlueTemplar -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/6/2021 9:57:20 PM)

Yeah, I name this (and the corresponding issue with items) to be the absolute *worst* issue with SE.
(EDIT : And it's even worse for credits because you don't have the arrow for the turn-by-turn changes !)

I am personally thorough enough (due to being still in the phase where I'm very engrossed with the game) to check everything every turn, but this issue completely fails the professed claim that people that don't *want* to micromanage everything won't have to, because both the (non/)decisions taken for the player (usually) won't be so bad to utterly ruin his regime *and* the game is going to warn the player if there's an urgent issue that he *must* deal with !

(Hmm, and now that I have written this, I seem to remember that at least in case of salaries, there *is* going to be a "tutorial adviser" popping up and warning the player that some of the salaries weren't paid... as long as the player didn't delete that specific warning the first time he saw it ?)



Zemke -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/7/2021 12:47:21 AM)

The issues of replacements, (and I am embarrassed to say the cause), I was out of ammo! Once I corrected that, I built a ton of units, and added replacements. The one vexing issue I cannot seem to fix is worker happiness, due to QoL or fear or whatever. Also, I wish as their employer, if only a few are going to work, then I should be able to tell them WHERE to work, which building or project has priority. As for worker pay, you pay them more and they just want more till you are broke.



Soar_Slitherine -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/7/2021 1:17:39 AM)

Workers spend their wages in the private economy and adjust their wage expectations based on private economy salaries, which means that if the ratio of population to workers is too low, the workers will always be unhappy with their wages because increasing them just drives up the private economy salary. I like to imagine this has to do with the price of services being driven up by scarcity of private economy service workers.



zgrssd -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/7/2021 1:25:52 AM)

quote:

The one vexing issue I cannot seem to fix is worker happiness, due to QoL or fear or whatever.

"Whatever" is not a thing :)
We need clear causes for each city, as those can all be local and only be fixed locally.

A big factor tends to be "City QOL lower/higher then national Civilisation Level". Given that Civ level follows QOL, this is basically just a QOL measuring contest.
This is exactly one of the reasons I do not like having Private Economy pushing my QOL upwards! It jsut makes newly conquered cities less happy and more of a resource drain to get up to comparable QOL.

Fear does not affect the Worker happiness at all - unless you run the 1.08.03 beta.
Danger and Unrest however do affect it in all versions I know off. But those 3 are utterly different values with utterly different meanings.

It might be best if you could share the savegame with us. Better to look at the issues that way.



Zemke -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/7/2021 1:26:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soar_Slitherine

Workers spend their wages in the private economy and adjust their wage expectations based on private economy salaries, which means that if the ratio of population to workers is too low, the workers will always be unhappy with their wages because increasing them just drives up the cost of services due to scarcity of private economy service workers.


Damn the law of Supply and Demand! I am paying them 9-11 depending on which city, except for one near the front where I need to have workers, and they get 17, and they are pissed off also. More pay only works for a time, less pay is worse, strikes all the time.

I just quit my game, because I cannot keep running in circles. I build units, they then starved because I did not have enough points to move enough food. I am having to buy 150-450 food because I shut down all my government-run farms, and I have a shortage of 150-400ish food a turn.

I have all these units I was going to use for an attack, (massed where I was planning to attack)..which now I have to move into supply and add replacements so they are even ready. I have a paved road, then built a rail. Railhead won't build because so few workers are working on it. Truck building won't finish due to so few workers.

It seems I never get to enjoy the fun of fighting because I am always dicking with the economy in some way.



zgrssd -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/7/2021 1:28:15 AM)

quote:

I just quit my game, because I cannot keep running in circles. I build units, they then starved because I did not have enough points to more the food, food I am having to buy because I shut down all my government-run farms, and I have a shortage of 150-400ish food a turn.

I like to say "Nobody ever learned to play Shadow Empires without starving his army at least once."



BlueTemplar -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/7/2021 3:22:06 PM)

If you don't enjoy the logistic part of the game, you might want to try the "Easier Logistics" option next time ?



shabowie -> RE: Newly Got The Game, Questions (3/8/2021 8:40:25 PM)

"What is logistics? Where does it come from kids?"

I'll be honest I still don't really get it, I just build up my truck depots and railyards with the occasional supply base here and there and say a prayer.

I'm developing an intuition where I'm like "Yeah I'll be screwed if I go out that far" but I would much prefer if I could get it down to a science.



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