More surrender NM trouble (Full Version)

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Dazo -> More surrender NM trouble (2/28/2021 12:44:30 PM)

Still my cursed game as Entente vs ThisEndUp [:'(]

Following OE surrender, it's France turn to surrender and...
Russia takes something like a 30% NM hit as well as Italy BUT not UK.
Also, the unit morale drop striked CP units, NOT Entente units...
(well a bit of payback for that no NM hit after OE surrender)

Got twice the event windows about Italy NM falling below 25%.

I would also like to point that OE and FR surrenders had no effect at all on US mobilization which is a bit weird..
Entente success should bolster it while failure should have the opposite effect I think.

Speaking of US, they reached 94% and I got a diplo hit on top of that for 7% for a total of... 99% [:D].
Well maybe it's to avoid US mobilizing on CP turn (vulnerable fleet though german navy shouldn't be able to venture there often)
That said in the end game the NM hit/boost of US entering the war can make a big difference (one less turn of attack with high stats for CP can be huge in summer 1917).

EDIT: more surprises

USA entered the war and I thought there was no NM consequences either but it kicked in at the end of Entente turn, not when US joined hurray ! Well at least I got the event windows, will check things next turn.

That said after the fall of France, CP liberated french north Africa but those countries went 100% central powers under OE which had already surrendered [:D] . I believe they should go neutral in that case ?



OldCrowBalthazor -> RE: More surrender NM trouble (3/1/2021 8:02:30 PM)

This sounds like a wild match, Dazo! I'd like to read a summary of this when its all over..

I pulled out all the stops against ThisEndUp once while playing the Entente...Broke the doors down into Hungary, got Romania in and pushed a Russian/Romanian army and took Adrianople. You would think Darius was on the ropes, but noooo, he flips my gambit on its head and mad dogs me all the way back to Odessa..turning my entire Eastern Front into a shambles....hence, he lives up to the name, "This end up" when dealing with adversaries..haha.

Anyway..thanks for detailing these extra 'surprises'...

[image]local://upfiles/72627/9D67392419AA40808E2790F3734875A2.jpg[/image]



Dazo -> RE: More surrender NM trouble (3/1/2021 9:31:40 PM)

You're welcome OCW !

Well, wild game yes, but summary is quite short as game was more or less over in 1915 already.
We still continue(d) to play just to check some weird things though.
Also it was miror games but CP just killed it early in both.
We intend to go at it again with the new patch. Maybe an AAR if we have time (at least on one side) ?

ThisEndUp went with is usual naval opening but I didn't mind it much since I had plans on land.
However he went for France first strategy in 1915 and that was it [:D].


Entente got infantry 1 first but artillery came way too late (for all Entente countries...) so I couldn't attack first in France though I managed to save Belgium. Actually, that worked against me as the fall of Belgium in 1915 doomed Entente units morale in the west.
Add to that Serbia (which also survived 1914) plus Greece and France never had a chance to fight back (german units were regularly at 120% morale while even rested UK units barely reached 100% at best, not even speaking of french ones.

Entente was basically just a punching bag for CP artillery during 3 years (CP killed around 10 units a turn with barely any losses). ThisEndUp 12 steps uber artillery units were unkillable and often dealing 1 step if not 2 damage by defensive shell making it suicidal to even try to attack.

Russia did a number on AH early on, taking all Galicia and some (pushing Romania into the war later on) took eastern Prussia and eastern Turkey but couldn't attack anymore after that because of artillery tech though NM peaked above 125% (50% more than AH).

So I attacked the only place where I could do something without artillery meaning OE.
Managed to bring it down with multiple amphibious operations (Gallipoli failed as Bulgaria joined at the same time but UK managed to kill OE navy, massive landings in Syria succeeded, diversions in northern Turkey and on Jerusalem had ok results) but sadly the prize wasn't as expected (no NM hit on CP or plunder) so UK went broke for nothing.

After that France surrendered with a massive NM hit on Russia and Italy. US entry was about to happen but ThisEndUp got the Zim telegram to work, negating the effect of UNW on US.








mdsmall -> RE: More surrender NM trouble (3/2/2021 6:49:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dazo

After that France surrendered with a massive NM hit on Russia and Italy. US entry was about to happen but ThisEndUp got the Zim telegram to work, negating the effect of UNW on US.



Delighted to hear an audacious player found it worthwhile to send the Zimmerman telegram! It was cited earlier in this Forum as one of those Decision Events that no one ever accepts.



BillRunacre -> RE: More surrender NM trouble (3/2/2021 7:22:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dazo

US entry was about to happen but ThisEndUp got the Zim telegram to work, negating the effect of UNW on US.




I feel like buying ThisEndUp a drink for doing this, I am not the only one anymore! [:D]



Dazo -> RE: More surrender NM trouble (3/4/2021 11:18:31 AM)

Well to be fair, CP had already won the game at this point so it was all reward and no risk on his side but I don't want to steal his hard earned beer [:D].

We're using the endgame to take a look at some weird stuff:

- Amphib liberated Belgium: no effect it seems, but Italy surrendered at the same time so it's hard to say though there should be something to see as a difference between a major collapsing and a minor being liberated (at least for UK).
ThisEndUp will recapture it next turn to see what happens.

- Amphib liberated Tunisia (which was french then 100% CP but OE though OE had surrendered): will see next turn if any effect. ThisEndUp could use the production screen to buy units for OE Tunisia but had no MPPs to do so because OE was already out.

- Italy surrendered and Lybia went CP-OE like French North Africa it seem
Italy didn't lose that much ground in the north (Trento-Udinese-Venice) but collapse of France doomed it with 30% or so NM hit and Germans coming from the west only had to take Milan to finish the job.




marionmco -> RE: More surrender NM trouble (3/18/2021 6:04:35 PM)

Hello,

What is the NM boost for CP after the fall Of Montenegro ? Serbia ? Luxembourg ? Belgium ?
And for Entente ?



mdsmall -> RE: More surrender NM trouble (3/18/2021 6:18:42 PM)

Hi - when any country surrenders, there is a 20-30% swing in morale for all land and air units belonging to Powers on the winning side and 20-30% swing against in morale for land and air units on the loosing side. The morale swing for naval units is (I think) 10-15% for each side. See the longer thread below on Surrender Morale Effects.



marionmco -> RE: More surrender NM trouble (3/18/2021 8:26:28 PM)

So, it's really unbalanced : Luxembourg or Montenegro should'not have the same effect than Major Power.

Montenegro's Gambit close the game !



OldCrowBalthazor -> RE: More surrender NM trouble (3/19/2021 12:14:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: marionmco

So, it's really unbalanced : Luxembourg or Montenegro should'not have the same effect than Major Power.

Montenegro's Gambit close the game !


Yep..it has closed for a bunch of us. However, the devs are looking at it and are considering fixes. Thing is, its a complicated and intricate issue because there are other factors to consider even with a localized fix on Montenegro, (e.g. Serbia, Greece, Russia, and other things.) There are several of us MP'rs who are collaborating and working on this behind the scenes btw.



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