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Hanny -> RE: Road movement (3/7/2021 12:59:35 PM)
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ORIGINAL: RedLancer
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hanny
Did you compare with actual klm of surfaced and unsurfaced roads in Russia?, as in Hunter, The soviet transportation experience. That with the manuals gives you exact historical data to work from, most of Russia was poor roads, 143k was average or better.
10 miles is a mp cost of 1, how many gallons a vechicle in the Division is that In 2, how does that hex being an autobhan road change the cost, how does that hex bring a dirt road in wet conditions change it, in WiTE it’s 1 mps cost is nothing close to norms for cross country.
No, because that data is largely irrelevant within the game's abstraction of terrain and roads. Quoting facts and figures is all well and good, but trying to link those to the game isn't. If you had any clear understanding of the WitE2 game mechanics you would appreciate the non sequitur logic between the data you quote and what the game does. The discussion in another thread on Sdkfz 251s is a perfect example. Having total production numbers and comparing them to the game is only valuable if every variant is in the game. They are not. Using WitE1 as your start is also pretty pointless. I'm struggling to think of any major code process or art that has not been redone since the code split that led to WitE2; and that was before Morvael re-wrote large elements of the WitE1 code.
So for roads having the length by type is of little use because:
- Each hex is assigned a generic road value and there are only three choices: good, average and poor. (In WitW this was done by country and not hex). Note the terms are broad adjectives and not descriptors of specific road type or surface.
- The choice was qualitative based on good judgement and a balance of the number of roads, their type, map location and the hex terrain.
- It absolutely wasn't done by a quantitative assessment of road length - not least because total length of roads and quality (type/surface) per hex is so different.
- The intent was to better define available manoeuvre corridors to add an additional dimension to movement particularly in dense terrain and inclement weather.
- The screenshot should answer your MP questions - note the yellow text - these costs are editable by anyone who chooses.
[image]local://upfiles/18789/05F0918A3EA74E38A00F9E43715AA8EC.jpg[/image]
Thank you heighlighting the game is not using historical miles of roads, or quality of roads on Russia, as defined by the Germans at the time, or the Field manuals effects of move to rates on those roads. My logical mistake was in thinking the game would.
Game abstraction is number of hexes classed as roads of three qualities, a hex to count as road must have enough road in miles must be enough for a motorised formation to use as roads,so a Mot Div requires 25 miles of road space, when sat still, a urban hex must have 30 min miles of road to go from mid point to any adjacent hex in a straight line to get a Mot move,bonus from road movement. The number of urban hex in game at min miles of road leaves the miles of average or better, each hex that connects to another is 10 miles, if it connects to more hex sides the min number of miles increases. tithe use of this is to compare your mid War German map of roads, after the Reich has spent million of man hours making roads where they did not exists, to SU maps and miles of surfaces roads that did., of course having one map for the whole game misses the logical point that both sides expended vast resources changing the road infrastructure it to suit their military requirments, yet this is not modelled any more than average freight weight of a truck was different by year for each side. Yearly modifiers to truck freight is with not exactly hard to include.
In the same way, validity checking of the model, knowing the game is using more Sdkz chassis than were produced, because of use of inaccurate TOE numbers, you can check the accuracy of the games data sets content, just as you can double check road hex numbers, with x number of road miles, not being greater than number of roads of average or better.
Comparing to WITE1 is so that I can judge if to purchase early or later, by knowing how much improved it is, I used the example of how many gallons a vechicle uses per 10 miles in 1, to get an idea of if 2 has improved it or not, having realistic fuel consumption or not is important.
Thanks for the screen shot, most helpful.
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