Mortars and hit percentages (Full Version)

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Windo von Paene -> Mortars and hit percentages (5/17/2000 1:10:00 AM)

Another newbie question. So I'm starting a campaign as the Russians, and my first mission is strangely enough an advance mission. There are all kinds of Germans dug in and ripping me to pieces. I've got a bunch of 82mm(?) mortars, and I'm dropping rounds into the dug in german positions. I get messages saying the hit percentages are going to be around 2 or 3 percent. And yet with each round I seem to be causing casualties. Now, not that I'm complaining, but why am I getting kills when the hit percentages are so low?



Wild Bill -> (5/17/2000 1:17:00 AM)

If you do get hits, they more than likely will be kills with an 82mm mortar, at least one or two. The odds are in your favor. Head to Las Vegas before that changes (G)...WB ------------------ Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



Windo von Paene -> (5/17/2000 2:00:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Wild Bill: If you do get hits, they more than likely will be kills with an 82mm mortar, at least one or two.
Well OK, but it just seems wierd to me. As I am getting hits/kills on 3 out of 4 shots. And at 2 and 3 percent, that just seems way unlikely... As I said, I'm not complaining... Just a bit confused.



Paul Vebber -> (5/17/2000 2:23:00 AM)

"Casualties" are not just killed, but otherwise incapacitated, run away, etc. In SP the infantry casualty system always hasallowed for "collateral damage" based on morale and experience. We have continued that, modifying things slightly. NOTE: Michael Wood is responsible for all the good stuff new in the infatry combat department :-) The "hit chance" indicates the chance of hitting someone, this is diced for a number of times equal to the number of troops in the hex. Troops "hit" get an experience sheck to see if they "hit the dirt" at the last second. Each round that doesn't hit somebody has a chance of causing "collateral damage" again as a function of terrain type, experience, morale and leadership. These guys are't necessarily "hit" but either are run off, shell shocked, holding their buddy's guts in, or otherwise "combat ineffective" for the remainder of the game.



Paul Vebber -> (5/17/2000 2:24:00 AM)

The other thing to remember is that most mortar units represent more than 1 tube (usually 2 or 3) so you are pumping a LOT of shells out...



Harlock_0 -> (5/17/2000 10:51:00 AM)

That`s what I tought. When playing I realized that a full unit being hammered by some mortar shells tends to lose 1-2 units for each hit, then when the unit drops to 3-4 men, it takes a lot of mortar shots to get 1 casualty. Anyway, after that its time to mop up with a good infantry unit [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img]



STEELER -> (5/17/2000 12:13:00 PM)

>So I'm starting a campaign as the Russians, and my first mission is strangely enough an advance mission. > Hi, Couple of points to remember: 1) Russians in 1941 DID launch attacks and counterattacks, even a couple of days after the invasion. They were desperate attacks, ill-coordinated, althought the Southern sector did have some success for a variety of reasons. A good series on East Front for understanding some tactical battles is Paul (Schmidt)Carell's books "Hitler Moves East" and "Scorched Earth". Keep in mind he does write from German point of view...during the war he did Propaganda under Goebbels I believe. 2) Paul answered this point about mortars representing several tubes. 3) I don't know about SPWAW but I believe other games give a slight advantage to Russian artillery in rolls, as alternative is to give Russians tons of it, ruining the fun of the game! I had heard this in relation to SP3 and with regards to a Talonsoft game. Ivans are my favorites in campaigns too...let me know how you make out. ------------------ Best Wishes, STEELER



Windo von Paene -> (5/17/2000 11:25:00 PM)

Well I got absolutely smoked... I thought I was finally making some progress, having captured one batch of flags, nearing a second group with what was left of my forces, (I'd estimate >50% losses), when all of a sudden I see about 8 stugs and other assorted afv's rolling up. I've decided to try again...



Larry Holt -> (5/18/2000 2:04:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Windo von Paene: Well I got absolutely smoked... I thought I was finally making some progress, having captured one batch of flags, nearing a second group with what was left of my forces, (I'd estimate >50% losses), when all of a sudden I see about 8 stugs and other assorted afv's rolling up. I've decided to try again...
Two things to consider here. You have the full length of the battle to occupy the objectives. Use mass and try to defeat the enemy in detail then go on to the objectives. May I suggest massing near the N or S side of the map, penetrating the FEBA until you make contact then swinging towards the middle and rolling up the flank of the enemy. This way you can engage a few of his forces with most of yours and overwhelm them. Alternately you can move offensively and fight defensively. If you can get to the objectives before the enemy, use smoke & arty beyond the objective to disrupt and deny him LOS/LOF to your forces. Set up most of your forces near the objective (random % that the AI or human opponent may fire at the objective itself makes sitting directly on it a bad idea) then ambush him as he emerges from the smoke. If your guns are too weak to reliably penetrate even at short range use engineers to close assault. ------------------ An old soldier but not yet a faded one.



Pack Rat -> (5/18/2000 6:21:00 AM)

It used to be the flanking movement was a sure thing, not as easy anymore as the AI will use the edges now. Always try to pick your ground for the fight. Key high ground can be a critical point. If you can go toe to toe with the enemy armor do it, if not use a differant tactic, like ambush. In the past I used to wait in fixed positions if I couldn't get to high ground first and nail them when they crested with mass fire, this isn't going to be as easy anymore with the new stats to armor. Russian tanks have nice speed early use it to your advantage to get the important positions and then be patient. Play, play, play, you'll know your troops well after awhile. ------------------ Hell On Wheels



Pack Rat -> (5/18/2000 6:33:00 AM)

This is just a wish. Time is night, your units have just felt some probes by the oncoming enemy, and then your mortors open up the night with flares. Ah, there they are (-: ------------------ Hell On Wheels



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