AI spawns ungodly ammounts of soldiers (Full Version)

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Geroj55 -> AI spawns ungodly ammounts of soldiers (3/16/2021 8:40:02 AM)

Returning after few months, mostly playing smaller games with smaller populations and on slow and I noticed after several games that something is wrong, but last game was just crazy. We started with 50k pop towns and I discovered 10 monitor tanks and with that advantage I attacked hostile ai next to me. Outnumbered already 2:1 I managed to just slice through his slug/enviro infantry with monitors, cut his city off, hold the line for 2 turns and mop up the hostiles outside. AI already spawned 2 brigades and then ....corps. 19 000 soldiers and forever locked my main force in never ending siege. In other games AI with around 100k pop in their cities is able to create multiple corps later in game sometimes having 2-4x as much soldiers as their pop.

I dont think its scaling well with low planet pop or slow research




BlueTemplar -> RE: AI spawns ungodly ammounts of soldiers (3/16/2021 12:30:45 PM)

Well, maybe the AI *really* didn't want to lose ? [:'(]

I can think of at least two ways to get a lot of recruits, *fast* :
- Normal recruitment, with a big sign-up bonus :
quote:

5.3.12.3. reCruItment of reCruIts
Ideally you can recruit up to 5% of the Population [I think they mean populace ? Workers get recruited too !] per turn. However, this
percentage is modified for:
§ Population Loyalty (counts a lot!)
§ The Fist Regime Profile
§ Difference between Private Credit earnings and Recruit sign-up bonus
§ Possible Recruitment Penalty caused by Events
§ Recruitment Penalty goes down by 10% every round.
If your Populace is suffering casualties from Exposure, expect it to be a lot
easier to recruit Colonists or Military Recruits. People will actually want to
get out of the Zone!

- Using the Volunteer Drive Interior stratagem : +0% to +16% of the populace.

But throwing a lot of bodies at the issue has other downsides than losing populace :
they're going to have a very high casualty rate, resulting in population and worker happiness dropping like a rock !
(Though this too can be compensated by some profiles, what are theirs ?)



Geroj55 -> RE: AI spawns ungodly ammounts of soldiers (3/16/2021 1:23:07 PM)

So you are saying they just mass recruit their own population? I remember there was somewhere in patch notes that ai was made more aggressive or competitive but its still weird. 10-15k lost outside of city, 10-15k in the city and then 19k corp is recruited (ofcourse plenty of militia and good 200 buggies). At that point my city have 90k pop and thats me grabbing large free folk towns around the map.
Recruiting 500 recruits per turn + 300 from merc camp and still cant keep up more than 3 brigades on the field due to loosing around 1k a turn (AI casualties are around 1.5-2k)
So they manage to field 3x to 4x more soldiers than me with smaller territory, same starting city (around 50k pop), no merc camp, less resources and high casualties for several turns



Soar_Slitherine -> RE: AI spawns ungodly ammounts of soldiers (3/16/2021 3:08:59 PM)

500 recruits is what your capitol is set to recruit by default - you can call up your governors to tell them to recruit more. Manual section 5.18. says that the AI uses the same rules for recruits as the player. But it does have a general tendency to spam absolutely massive quantities of infantry.



BlueTemplar -> RE: AI spawns ungodly ammounts of soldiers (3/16/2021 4:08:14 PM)

You must use your troops quite poorly (or have bad models too) if you have ~1:2 casualties against slug/envirosuit infantry !?
Which, as a reminder, only costs 2 Metal and 3 IP per 100, so 45k of them is only 900 Metal and 1350 IP, spread over how many turns ?



zgrssd -> RE: AI spawns ungodly ammounts of soldiers (3/16/2021 4:57:27 PM)

quote:

19 000 soldiers and forever locked my main force in never ending siege.

Just send in the Monitor tanks.

Tanks have two advantages comapred to infantry:
- callibre calculation. Small arms only count as 20mm weapons. vs 200 mm armor, that is -90% Attack
- small arms additionally have a -50% penalty in hard attack and defense (already worked into the units)

The prediction usually has issues properly accounting for those two factors and undervalues tanks horribly

With these kinds of bonus, tanks can ever overun infantry entrenched up to 250 Points in a ruin hex, at a -50% terrain penalty. They are just that powerfull.



Geroj55 -> RE: AI spawns ungodly ammounts of soldiers (3/16/2021 5:05:21 PM)

I ragequit yesterday and deleted saves [:D] but I rushed for light tanks and was modeling them for a long time, still had slugs and enviros on my infantry so on slowest its around round 40? early game. Oh and I know about how to set recruiting but I need someone to work in factories and mines. And the problem is even if I set it to 2000 I had no chance to compete with a freaking corp.

Those GR monitors made me do this, i blame them [:D]



Geroj55 -> RE: AI spawns ungodly ammounts of soldiers (3/16/2021 5:09:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

19 000 soldiers and forever locked my main force in never ending siege.

Just send in the Monitor tanks.

Tanks have two advantages comapred to infantry:
- callibre calculation. Small arms only count as 20mm weapons. vs 200 mm armor, that is -90% Attack
- small arms additionally have a -50% penalty in hard attack and defense (already worked into the units)

The prediction usually has issues properly accounting for those two factors and undervalues tanks horribly

With these kinds of bonus, tanks can ever overun infantry entrenched up to 250 Points in a ruin hex, at a -50% terrain penalty. They are just that powerfull.


Every turn they attacked and killed from 200 to 800 of his soldiers, it was not enough. There was so many of them that they forced monitors to retreat. It was like beating ocean with a stick



Pratapon51 -> RE: AI spawns ungodly ammounts of soldiers (3/16/2021 6:02:06 PM)

I did notice the AI loves to field seas of infantry, too. Lategame it is usually no contest against huge energy cannon tracked vehicles and light walkers, but earlier than that it can be a struggle. [:D]



BlueTemplar -> RE: AI spawns ungodly ammounts of soldiers (3/16/2021 6:15:36 PM)

Yeah, remember that just because it's a monitor doesn't make it better :
indeed actually worse compared to a lighter tank (assuming it's also able to mount the same equipment) - due to the movement speed penalty,
and *especially* if getting tactically (counter-)attacked by infantry (due to the soft HP penalty) !

But then GR units also seem to have better than average design rolls, Side Skirts, and maybe a +50% Armor Piercing Optimization ? (this last one won't help against infantry of course)
(And of course mid-late game tech.)



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