Does artillery feel right to you? (Full Version)

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shabowie -> Does artillery feel right to you? (3/17/2021 7:56:25 AM)

I have not been impressed by the so called “king of battle” (artillery) in this game. What am I doing wrong or is it nerfed? Many independent battalions combined seems to do not much.

Tips to maximize effectiveness? What am I doing wrong?



Culthrasa -> RE: Does artillery feel right to you? (3/17/2021 8:45:57 AM)

Personally i don't use independent battalions of arty. I reaaaaaallllyyy like the heavy siege template. A big advantage is that the infantry more effectively screens the arty, while at the same time the arty deals full damage. Against all non-heavy armored targets i find it more the sufficient and even able to take fortified positions like cities.

What i've seen for indi arty is that it is most effective in disrupting attacks(bombardments) and not frontline combat...

Also for arty design is quite important. Are you using the biggest caliber available? For the bigger calibers the attack per shot doesn't increase all that much, but it gets more attacks per round.



zgrssd -> RE: Does artillery feel right to you? (3/17/2021 9:42:52 AM)

One of the most improtant rules to remember: Increasing the Firepower gives artilelry more attacks, not bigger attacks. The Damage/Shot for artillery is capped. It's power is in the incredible number of attacks/combat round.

Ranged attacks need to be properly prepared:
- you need good recon - I would advise 100 at least. Otherwise your artillery does not know what to shoot
- for callibre calculations, artillery callibre is cut by a factor of 3 during ranged attack. So it will not be able to penetrate tank armor
- it needs a lot more ammo
- it will do considerable damage to assets in the hex
- it will primarily damage enemy entrenchment and readyiness. Do not expect kills from it. It is a tool to soften up the enemy, not kill them

The Artillery actually peforms pretty good in direct combat, but is more vulnerable:
- it keeps in the backline, but is able to shoot the enemy backline. In turn it can not shoot enemies that broke through
- if there is nobody in teh front to shield it, the enemy will automatically break through. Never have it fight alone
- it's high number of attacks will prevent enemy breakthroughs - wich is good given it's aforementioned vulnerability
- the increasing recon from being in a non-ranged combat will allow it to actually hit more targets

It is strongest during defensive combat, as that is when Recon is the best and breakthroughs are the most dangerous.
But in order to have any weapon on the defense, it must be part of the formation. It must be distributed across the entirely Brigade.



BlueTemplar -> RE: Does artillery feel right to you? (3/17/2021 11:46:08 AM)

No, it doesn't have to be part of the formation ?? Arty still takes part in combat when in another unit, even from a different formation !

----

You'll have to give more details about HOW you're using your artillery.

Towed arty seems to be designed to be the best at tactical offense on operational defense against infantry (= very high Soft Defense value with lots of attacks).



zgrssd -> RE: Does artillery feel right to you? (3/17/2021 12:51:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

No, it doesn't have to be part of the formation ?? Arty still takes part in combat when in another unit, even from a different formation !


The problem is that a independant unit will just defend the single hex it is palced in. So there will be plenty of hexes the enemy can attack, without facing any artillery.
With a siege Infantry meanwhile, you get 1 Artillery part of each Battalion. So the enemy can never attack where there are none.



BlueTemplar -> RE: Does artillery feel right to you? (3/17/2021 1:10:35 PM)

You mean that the enemy might defeat the stacked units on the first operational attack and then get lucky when they retreat and not have artillery stacked with other units on the second operational attack ?

Also I misremembered :
The factor of 3 that I thought about is between tactical attack vs hard compared to vs soft.
So towed arty is *both* better on tactical attack in operational defense *and* operational offense than basic infantry (or worse than infantry vs vehicles, depending how you look at it).

So as long as you're not facing vehicles, and have enough non-arty subunits to protect the backline, stacking infantry with towed artillery might be not a good idea ?



zgrssd -> RE: Does artillery feel right to you? (3/17/2021 3:44:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

You mean that the enemy might defeat the stacked units on the first operational attack and then get lucky when they retreat and not have artillery stacked with other units on the second operational attack ?


I do not understand what you are writing there. What I meant was this:
Independant Artillery units can only protect the hex that they are in.
If your combat units are split over 5 hexes, the attacker could easily attack the 3 hexes without a Artillery unit - thus the defensive power of independant formations is limited.

But if you are using something like Siege Infantry, then each and every one of your combat units will have some artillery. No mater where the enemy attacks that formation, he will face at least 10 artillery guns.

As for Artillery Combat Values:
According to "5.12.3.7. oPeratIonal stats", both Howitzers and Small Arms suffer a -50% on Hard Offense and Defense.

Additionally:
"Soldiers on foot without ranged attack have their Soft and Hard Attack Values divided by two"
Wich results in the 1/2 and 2/4 split that you see on basic infantry



BlueTemplar -> RE: Does artillery feel right to you? (3/17/2021 5:06:15 PM)

quote:

If your combat units are split over 5 hexes, the attacker could easily attack the 3 hexes without a Artillery unit - thus the defensive power of independant formations is limited.

That's just one combination, for a single brigade with 2 attached independent artillery batallions you could also have one hex with 1 arty & 3 core battalions and another hex with 1 arty & 2 core battalions.
You get even more potential combinations once militia and other brigades or even non-attached independent battalions come into play.
(Of course with core artillery formations, filled up to include basic infantry, you can't make the mistake of leaving your units without artillery cover either !)
(Also technically your Siege Infantry formation doesn't *have* to have artillery in it, but that would be kind of silly...)

quote:

As for Artillery Combat Values:
According to "5.12.3.7. oPeratIonal stats", both Howitzers and Small Arms suffer a -50% on Hard Offense and Defense.

Additionally:
"Soldiers on foot without ranged attack have their Soft and Hard Attack Values divided by two"
Wich results in the 1/2 and 2/4 split that you see on basic infantry

Yeah, the issue is that I wouldn't really know where to start comparing soft and hard weapons (and soft & hard armor) - there are too many modifiers involved to just compare the plain values !
So I preferred to look at the attack & defense & HP ratios "inside" both infantry and artillery.

EDIT : Even here though, in "plain" direct combat, it's complicated by the fact that both hard weapons and hard armor can quickly get much higher calibre/plating values than soft weapons and soft armor...



solops -> RE: Does artillery feel right to you? (3/17/2021 5:14:30 PM)

Does artillery feel right to you?
Yes.



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