RE: Trying to Wrap my Arms Around Logistics (Full Version)

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loki100 -> RE: Trying to Wrap my Arms Around Logistics (4/10/2021 10:30:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Repsol

Back to trucks for a while [8D]...

At a certain part of the front if i notice that my units are using lots of their own trucks to get supplies...Will lowering the supply priority instantly be the only/best solution to fix this or will the AI try to fix this for me by allocating more trucks to my closest depots next turn...I guess what i'm asking is that if a problem like this exist will it be a viable option to accept this for a turn or two and eventually the AI will sort it out...

Or should i lower the supply priority of my units immidiatelly...

I guess that i could move some of the units out of the area (ex. air) but if i don't want to do that...Will the truck situation get fixed automaticcal over time ?



as the axis player the problem just escalates till around April 42. The malus on axis supply starts to bite as you push east and you can never really solve the problem of a lack of rail/depot cap.

So yes, while its a bit of a trade off I'd start squeezing out demand by lowering HQ priority. Its a tricky judgement but at some point truck loss due to trying to keep supply levels up costs you more MP/CV than having lower supply stocks in the units.

Try with the bulk of the infantry corps on #2, most of the pzrs on #3 and reserve #4 for maybe one corps in each army group.



Repsol -> RE: Trying to Wrap my Arms Around Logistics (4/10/2021 10:47:06 AM)

Thanks



Bamilus -> RE: Trying to Wrap my Arms Around Logistics (4/20/2021 1:52:39 AM)

So other than to connect to railyards size 2+ or to connect to depots, is there any reason as Axis to repair other rail lines? I.e. does going back later in 1941/1942 to repair the single track rail lines around Lvov help to reduce the congestion on the main Lvov double track line going east or does it not matter?



loki100 -> RE: Trying to Wrap my Arms Around Logistics (4/20/2021 8:40:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bamilus

So other than to connect to railyards size 2+ or to connect to depots, is there any reason as Axis to repair other rail lines? I.e. does going back later in 1941/1942 to repair the single track rail lines around Lvov help to reduce the congestion on the main Lvov double track line going east or does it not matter?


yes and no.

Pragmatically, you become reliant on a single chain of rail track with side steps to incorporate larger railyards. It depends then on how much usage its getting, as side spurs can really help say with unit moves. But given the enduring trade off between super depots and repair up to the front I'm not sure there is much you can do.

Take the Lvov example, yes the side lines north and south can be useful to have repaired but the likely choke points are going to seriously to the east. A better dual spur is the line that runs to Brodny and Zhitomir. I think that would really ease the flow up to Kiev but its easily a 2 turn job for a FBD to complete.

I tend to a single rail in the Ukraine running at least to Dnepropetrovsk and supplement it with sidesteps to certain locations - like trying to get some depots on the north bank of the Dnepr etc



carlkay58 -> RE: Trying to Wrap my Arms Around Logistics (4/20/2021 12:30:35 PM)

In the long run you will need those rails! But in the 41/42 timeframe you should be focusing on your 42 offensive to try and end the war. So I would concentrate more on the eastern part of the Ukraine and improving the rail net there. That is after you make sure the double line rails are done and you have one of the single lines done along the coast through Odessa, Nikoalaev, and the Crimea which should then be connected up to the Dnepr bend cities.



Bamilus -> RE: Trying to Wrap my Arms Around Logistics (4/20/2021 1:49:41 PM)

Thanks for responses. 2 more questions:

1. Does having a unit loaded on rails use capacity? e.g. I load a unit, don't move it, and keep it loaded through next turn. Or does it only use capacity once it moves?

2. On the topic of side rail lines, for example let's say I have the entire AGS railroad web complete (south of Pripayet) and I'm trying to get an insane amount of supply to front-lines around Stalino, enough that would make the Lvov-Dnepro double line display red and bring in severe SMP penalties. Assuming enough railyard capacity, would the AI freight logic know to balance between the quickest route (Lvov to Dnepro) but also using the side routes to balance the SMP penalties? Or would it just try to force feed everything through the double track first and only then use the side rails?



loki100 -> RE: Trying to Wrap my Arms Around Logistics (4/20/2021 2:12:27 PM)

1 - it doesn't use rail capacity as its static, it holds the railyard capacity used to originally entrain

2 - each tonne of freight will look for the cheapest route. So till you trigger a SMP penalty of +1, that is going to be the route with the least hexes. If that route picks up penalties, at some stage a secondary (longer in hexes) route becomes the cheapest so it will use that. Feasibly at some stage, the original direct route returns to being the cheapest and is adopted again.

Its the logistics equivalent of the D'Hondt system we use for electing the Scottish parliament [8D]



Bamilus -> RE: Trying to Wrap my Arms Around Logistics (4/29/2021 7:16:18 PM)

this is elementary but I haven't had great success setting up interim depots with increasing priority (furthest back 0, then 1, then 2, then 3 behind the front lines, 4 at front lines) and getting it to seemingly work. Using Carlkays method of keeping everything at 4 does seem to work and when I was running low on freight in front lines I brought the 4's in the back lines down to 1 or 2 to release their stored freight and that did work, but now that I have the front lines all at 4 and decreasing priority going back, I havent had great success.

It seems the lower priority depots don't get any freight, even the priority 3. So instead of pushing the freight forward in a chain, it basically just lowers the entire freight output and nothing behind my lines receives freight nor stores it (mostly). I don't know if because there's no airbases or units around the level 1 depots (to create a demand), and so on, but it's pretty frustrating. I have all double tracks repaired and virtually all railyards 2+ are connected (a few in south like Taganrog or whatever are not, but the ones further back all are).

1. During a single logistics phase, can a depot 1 priority receive freight from an NSS (or 0 priority depot) AND then push that same freight forward to a level 2 priority or higher depot? Or, does it have to wait until next turn to push the freight received this turn.

2. In same example, if the depot 1 priority can push forward freight received in current logistics, does it reset the 200 SMP freight calc from the position of the depot, or does it keep the 200 SMP calc from the origin (NSS or 0 priority depot).

3. Does having multiple FBD's (1 in each sector) mess up the freight grid? The FBD's seem to be working but I got much worse numbers than Carl in his game, which I'll analyze his saves to see.

4. I think I've asked this before, but can I literally set everything to 0 priority depot within Germany or will that mess up production? This includes everything except maybe 1 export port I'd keep open.



loki100 -> RE: Trying to Wrap my Arms Around Logistics (4/29/2021 8:44:47 PM)

The problem with Carlkay's model is the truck demand, its a complex trade off and he clearly gets it to work but (I think) the super-depot model is less resource intensive.

Direct answers and then some musings:

1 - yes and sort of no (I'm sure you really appreciate these answers)

2 - yes and yes (for the same reason that #1 is yes/no)

3 - shouldn't but I can think of problems if you actually repair too much in a linear line too quickly

4 - no reason why not, in the main 0 will shed their freight. 1 is also fairly safe as they rarely take what they can't immediately use.

First bit - when does a depot take freight? It will take it (according to priority) if it can send it out to meet local unit demand (this is why a depot near an airfield will grab freight) or ... if it is as close to the front as that particular unit of freight could reach (ie as far as the 200 SMP would take it, esp in the light of usage penalties).

So going back to your #1 and #2, those low priority rear area depots aren't really looking for freight in their own right but are invaluable to catch freight that can't make the journey to the front line. In turn as they have a limited role in meeting unit demand, they tend not to hold many trucks.

The next bit is a guess. I think if you repair too much in a linear line, esp if you add depots as you go, it can be inefficient in the short run. Each depot/railyard prob needs to repair (so that is a supply cost), they may struggle to pull down what they need (railyard cap), in the main I don't double team my FBDs in the sense of both actively repairing the same branch line.

edit - if you want one of my saves, feel free to ask. Its a HtH game so you can have my password but obv can't run it forward.



Bamilus -> RE: Trying to Wrap my Arms Around Logistics (4/29/2021 10:10:22 PM)

Thanks again, yes I'd appreciate that very much. I've learned a lot from analyzing Carl's saves and I know you have a different approach so would be really helpful to see one of your saes.



carlkay58 -> RE: Trying to Wrap my Arms Around Logistics (4/30/2021 12:08:34 AM)

Bamilus - there is another depot strategy which may work and that is creating 'pulses' by setting everything to '4' which will grab freight at every depot and then reset the rear ones back down to '1' the next turn so then everything will be sent on. I will note that this is a theory and I have not yet tried it - although I keep planning to try it. There is a large surge in throughput when I go back and prioritize them after having them all at '4'. It may be that you should keep them all at 4 for more than just one turn and possibly at 1 for more than one turn too to increase it. This is a test I probably should start pretty soon in my AAR.



Bamilus -> RE: Trying to Wrap my Arms Around Logistics (4/30/2021 2:06:02 AM)

That's a good point. I didn't run a pulse like that intentionally, but I noticed that I could free up the stored freight from the back depots at 4 by moving them down to 1. However, after that I never turned them back to 4 but I'll try that. Please post your results too!



loki100 -> RE: Trying to Wrap my Arms Around Logistics (4/30/2021 8:06:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

Bamilus - there is another depot strategy which may work and that is creating 'pulses' by setting everything to '4' which will grab freight at every depot and then reset the rear ones back down to '1' the next turn so then everything will be sent on. I will note that this is a theory and I have not yet tried it - although I keep planning to try it. There is a large surge in throughput when I go back and prioritize them after having them all at '4'. It may be that you should keep them all at 4 for more than just one turn and possibly at 1 for more than one turn too to increase it. This is a test I probably should start pretty soon in my AAR.



this works - see my AAR where I use it around super-depots. I set one up, let it fill, leave the HQ (for processing capacity) and move the FBD on, the freight then tumbles into the advanced depots. Best done in connection with a large rail yard if you can.

For the Soviets 1943+ this trick is absolutely critical. Set up the pattern and then once the front has moved, break the super-depots and you can keep a surprising amount close to the front. Really helps where you have high demand or poor infrastructure (such as in Hungary)



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