Turn 10: losses to date (Full Version)

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CapAndGown -> Turn 10: losses to date (4/29/2021 4:11:48 AM)

Not sure if these numbers are good or not.


[image]local://upfiles/2633/DF970A3AE3764E14B5EB5FC0204CA3B4.jpg[/image]



Elessar2 -> RE: Turn 10: the open steppe (4/30/2021 1:49:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown

Note: the fonts for city names are criminally small, so I added them to the illustration below.



That would seem to be something easily moddable hint hint to the modders out there.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Turn 10: losses to date (4/30/2021 1:59:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown

Not sure if these numbers are good or not.


[image]local://upfiles/2633/DF970A3AE3764E14B5EB5FC0204CA3B4.jpg[/image]


These number are within parameters for turn 10.



CapAndGown -> Turn 13: abandoning hope (5/12/2021 2:21:07 AM)

Sept. 14, 1941

I have given up on my plans around Leningrad and am pulling back to set up a defensive line. I had hoped to go around the rough terrain south of the city, through the light woods and clear terrain and encircle the units holding the hills. On looking over the CVs of my forward divisions, however, I decided that this plan would not succeed and so I ordered a pull back.


[image]local://upfiles/2633/A6FFBB1AB945487F8DAA92938C3AA2E9.jpg[/image]



CapAndGown -> Turn 13: Donbas, Voronezh captured (5/12/2021 2:48:02 AM)

To my surprise, my opponent simply abandoned the Donbas and Voronezh rather than put up a fight. Last turn I had cut the double track line to the Donbas coming down from the north, meaning this region would have to rely on just three single track lines for its supply. This was meant to make my assault easier. Yet nothing could be easier than just walking in and taking the place.

When I remarked on how surprised I was, my opponent replied: "The sooner the better. As you are force transferring my industry faster to the east."

I have strongly objected to taking away most player control of industry evacuation. It means the Soviets have no control over what to save and when to save it. It also means the Germans have little incentive to go after truly strategic objectives rather than just playing for points. I recognize that it is way too late to change anything in this regard, but I feel this design choice really has taken WitE in the wrong direction.

Nor do I necessarily agree with my opponent's cavalier attitude towards losing these cities. They still represent population centers that provide (provided in this case) manpower for the Red Army. Now they are off the table. So, for instance, Voronezh represented (taking into account migrations) 429 manpower per turn, while Stalino represented 528 manpower per turn. You combine this with Kursk, Orel, and Kharkov, along with all the other usual suspects, and you are talking some serious manpower losses.


[image]local://upfiles/2633/41C308A3911B483F9CAA9AC7F9026930.jpg[/image]



carlkay58 -> RE: Turn 13: Donbas, Voronezh captured (5/12/2021 11:59:11 AM)

The idea about the evacuations is that it WOULD have occurred historically if it had been needed. It also precludes an Axis drive to destroy the only factory for a type of aircraft or tank. Historically the Soviets would have rebuilt the factory from scratch. What does happen in WitE2 is that every factory that is moved is delayed a specific number of turns. If it is captured earlier than it was historically moved it is not only delayed longer it also accrues damage. The repair of this damage consumes resources which represents rebuilding the factory from scratch. When you end up with factories with 100% damage and a delay of 120 turns you have pretty much lost the use of the factory. I had this happen with a factory from Leningrad when it fell to HYLA on turn 10.



CapAndGown -> RE: Turn 13: Donbas, Voronezh captured (5/12/2021 4:10:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

The idea about the evacuations is that it WOULD have occurred historically if it had been needed. It also precludes an Axis drive to destroy the only factory for a type of aircraft or tank. Historically the Soviets would have rebuilt the factory from scratch. What does happen in WitE2 is that every factory that is moved is delayed a specific number of turns. If it is captured earlier than it was historically moved it is not only delayed longer it also accrues damage. The repair of this damage consumes resources which represents rebuilding the factory from scratch. When you end up with factories with 100% damage and a delay of 120 turns you have pretty much lost the use of the factory. I had this happen with a factory from Leningrad when it fell to HYLA on turn 10.


"WOULD have occured" That is the passive voice. Later you say "the Soviets would have." Active voice. And just who are the Soviets? The player. Yet the player has almost no control over evacuating armaments and absolutely no control over heavy industry or vehicles.

I agree the Soviets would have taken some design they liked and built a new factory to produce it regardless of losing the factory that was originally making it. Such an option could have been added to the WitE1 system.

I simply don't like the lack of strategic incentives the Soviets have for defending certain locations, such as the Donbas.



CapAndGown -> Turn 14: Crimea (5/12/2021 4:15:53 PM)

Sept. 21, 1941

The Soviets abandon their positions at the Perekop isthmus.

After some consideration I have decided I will not even bother worrying about Sevastopol this year. I will probably leave a German corps to siege the city through the winter while the Rumanians screen the Kerch Peninsula. Most of the rest of 12 Army will be pulled out to strengthen the main front between the Rostov and Leningrad. I prefer to have whole divisions (if possible) defending up and down the front rather than 1-2 regiments.


[image]local://upfiles/2633/D43CC9FCEB3246E58AB6A17ADE840D52.png[/image]



CapAndGown -> Turn 14: Logistical screw ups (5/12/2021 4:47:43 PM)

Last turn I transported two panzer divisions to the front from Germany. That put a lot of stress on the rail lines leading to Minsk, which in turn reduced capacity going to Smolensk and Orel. As a result, depots very far back from the front were used to transport supplies to the front. For instance, Gomel became a major source of supply, even though Bryansk and Orel were closer. As a result, my truck pool is trashed and my "vehicles in units" numbers are too, too low. Plus, supply deliveries were well below what was needed.

Oh well, such it the price of moving Panzer divisions by rail.

More mortifying is that I just noticed that I missed converting the rail hex northeast of Dnerpopetrovsk on my way to Kharkov and Stalino. [sm=00000116.gif][sm=Crazy-1271.gif][sm=crazy.gif][sm=fighting0056.gif][sm=nono.gif][sm=sign0063.gif] Well, I guess the FBD that is one hex shy of Stalino will have to back track and fix that situation (after repairing the rail into Stalino itself). Meanwhile the FBD north of Kharkov will continue on to Kursk where it will complete the rail connection coming down from Orel. Meanwhile, another FBD is heading to Voronezh and the fourth FBD works its way east from Smolensk.

[image]local://upfiles/2633/A7E1094AAD3240BCA5E52E8601E2D0B1.jpg[/image]



carlkay58 -> RE: Turn 14: Logistical screw ups (5/12/2021 5:21:31 PM)

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

The idea about the evacuations is that it WOULD have occurred historically if it had been needed. It also precludes an Axis drive to destroy the only factory for a type of aircraft or tank. Historically the Soviets would have rebuilt the factory from scratch. What does happen in WitE2 is that every factory that is moved is delayed a specific number of turns. If it is captured earlier than it was historically moved it is not only delayed longer it also accrues damage. The repair of this damage consumes resources which represents rebuilding the factory from scratch. When you end up with factories with 100% damage and a delay of 120 turns you have pretty much lost the use of the factory. I had this happen with a factory from Leningrad when it fell to HYLA on turn 10.


"WOULD have occured" That is the passive voice. Later you say "the Soviets would have." Active voice. And just who are the Soviets? The player. Yet the player has almost no control over evacuating armaments and absolutely no control over heavy industry or vehicles.

I agree the Soviets would have taken some design they liked and built a new factory to produce it regardless of losing the factory that was originally making it. Such an option could have been added to the WitE1 system.

I simply don't like the lack of strategic incentives the Soviets have for defending certain locations, such as the Donbas.



But there is a penalty for withdrawing too fast. The Delay time for the factory is increased and the damage will have to be repaired for a cost of resources - both engineers and stores - that could have been used on other things.



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