quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

quote:

Given this is T11, I'm using 45,000 of my 323,000 unit trucks in the supply system. Not exactly a surprise given where some of my units are deployed.

What is a surprise is that around 150 German Divisons each with 300 tons a day truck capacity ( which was the entire truck capacity of a Pzer Div being used unlike at best 2/3 of it, and Inf Divs with far less truck capacity, 180 tons a day with zero trucks lost) has turned into 150 Divisions all using 300 trucks of 2.5 tons capacity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny

first because German trucks carry capacity includes the weight of the truck and load,

quote:

ORIGINAL: stryc

Have to agree that I'm finding useful information about Trucks extremely difficult to find. The numbers never seem to line up and you have to visit various screens to be able to semi-mystically divine what's going on. (And the number format varies left and right which is infuriating, i.e., 2,134,234 here but 2134234 there.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny

first because German trucks carry capacity includes the weight of the truck and load,

No idea where you found the above gem but when reading in a language that's not the same as the supposed source, it's always a good idea to make a basic smell check or look for corroboration.

As a truck will roughly weigh what it can load, your supposed system leads to either a carry capacity of zero or capacity numbers that stand out massively with comparable models in other nations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny

quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny

first because German trucks carry capacity includes the weight of the truck and load,

No idea where you found the above gem but when reading in a language that's not the same as the supposed source, it's always a good idea to make a basic smell check or look for corroboration.

As a truck will roughly weigh what it can load, your supposed system leads to either a carry capacity of zero or capacity numbers that stand out massively with comparable models in other nations.

Try reading the link, the good Prof explains it very clearly and is not advancing a supposed system, and nor was i.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stryc

Have to agree that I'm finding useful information about Trucks extremely difficult to find. The numbers never seem to line up and you have to visit various screens to be able to semi-mystically divine what's going on. (And the number format varies left and right which is infuriating, i.e., 2,134,234 here but 2134234 there.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO


Unfortunately it needs a registration.

Feel free to copy paste or to show a reference to f.e. the 6.5 ton Opel Blitz. Showing how the rather classic 3 ton Opel Blitz weighed a negative 3.3 tons when empty would also work, I guess.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny

quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO


Unfortunately it needs a registration.

Feel free to copy paste or to show a reference to f.e. the 6.5 ton Opel Blitz. Showing how the rather classic 3 ton Opel Blitz weighed a negative 3.3 tons when empty would also work, I guess.

JSTOR is free to register. Feel free to pass further comment on something you clearly have not tread, or understood.

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny

quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO


Unfortunately it needs a registration.

Feel free to copy paste or to show a reference to f.e. the 6.5 ton Opel Blitz. Showing how the rather classic 3 ton Opel Blitz weighed a negative 3.3 tons when empty would also work, I guess.

JSTOR is free to register. Feel free to pass further comment on something you clearly have not tread, or understood.

and the usual reminder - keep it polite in the responses

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny

quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO


Unfortunately it needs a registration.

Feel free to copy paste or to show a reference to f.e. the 6.5 ton Opel Blitz. Showing how the rather classic 3 ton Opel Blitz weighed a negative 3.3 tons when empty would also work, I guess.

JSTOR is free to register. Feel free to pass further comment on something you clearly have not read, or understood.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny

quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO


Unfortunately it needs a registration.

Feel free to copy paste or to show a reference to f.e. the 6.5 ton Opel Blitz. Showing how the rather classic 3 ton Opel Blitz weighed a negative 3.3 tons when empty would also work, I guess.

JSTOR is free to register. Feel free to pass further comment on something you clearly have not read, or understood.

You are earnestly asserting that the very basic and fundamental concepts of empty weight, carry capacity and total weight of a truck were somehow mixed up and then wrongly applied by the German army.

The assertion is both ridiculous and wrong. If you understood and are correctly representing the article, the good professor mixed things up in translation, had a bad day or maybe the deadline was a bit too tight. Either way that gem has been left buried in that journal for good reason.

Not treating every unreviewed, or even reviewed, article as the gospel truth on a particular subject matter is a good practice in general, the more outlandish the claim, the more caution required.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

German weight designation system for military trucks is the load capacity, not total weight. So a 3t truck would be able to load 3t of freight, a 1t truck just 1t of freight. This system is still in use by the Bundeswehr.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny

quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

You are earnestly asserting that the very basic and fundamental concepts of empty weight, carry capacity and total weight of a truck were somehow mixed up and then wrongly applied by the German army.

The assertion is both ridiculous and wrong. If you understood and are correctly representing the article, the good professor mixed things up in translation, had a bad day or maybe the deadline was a bit too tight. Either way that gem has been left buried in that journal for good reason.

Not treating every unreviewed, or even reviewed, article as the gospel truth on a particular subject matter is a good practice in general, the more outlandish the claim, the more caution required.

Having done no such thing, i find im going to ignore you from now on as you have again failed to read the article or understand it or the maths in post 7.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny
first because German trucks carry capacity includes the weight of the truck and load,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanny

quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

German weight designation system for military trucks is the load capacity, not total weight. So a 3t truck would be able to load 3t of freight, a 1t truck just 1t of freight. This system is still in use by the Bundeswehr.

True, but by 44 Germany allocated fuel ration for the mission it was for, so Prof Hart is referring to the QM manual for fuel ration required for a loaded truck to x distance over w terrian type, not knowing the truck weight and its load means you cannot work out out its fuel requirement, for instance half freight load if the mission goes of road and on road, hence in 44 the QM reports refer to loaded weight, hence he is referencing the doubling capacity as it includes truck weight, W allies had no such fuel constraint and there QM reports only ever refer to carry capacity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

German weight designation system for military trucks is the load capacity, not total weight. So a 3t truck would be able to load 3t of freight, a 1t truck just 1t of freight. This system is still in use by the Bundeswehr.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kokubokan

Recommended books for understand the German logistics in Barbarossa:


Germany and the Second World War. Vol IV The Attack on the Soviet Union. Part II, Chapter VI (Rolf-Dieter Müller) The failure of the economic "Blitzkrieg Strategy".

Supplying War: Logistics from Wallenstein to Patton. Martin Van Creveld. Chapter V Russian Roulette.

Operation Barbarossa and Germany's Defeat in the East. David Stahel. Chapter 3 The impossible equation - the logistics and supply of Barbarossa.

Historical Division US Army Europe. Monograph of Generalmajor Alfred Toppe. T-8 Problems of Supply in Far-Reaching Operations.

Historical Division US Army Europe. Monograph of Generalleutnant Max Hermann Bork. T-7 Comments on Russian Railroads and Highways.

From Peace to War. Germany, Soviet Russia and the World, 1939-1941. Klaus Schüler. The Eastern Campaign as a Transportation and Supply Problem.

The Most Valuable Asset of the Reich: A History of the German National Railway Volume 2: 1933–1945. Alfred C. Mierzejewski. Chapter 3.B The Attack on the Soviet Union and the Winter Crisis, 1941-1942.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bamilus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kokubokan

Recommended books for understand the German logistics in Barbarossa:


Germany and the Second World War. Vol IV The Attack on the Soviet Union. Part II, Chapter VI (Rolf-Dieter Müller) The failure of the economic "Blitzkrieg Strategy".

Supplying War: Logistics from Wallenstein to Patton. Martin Van Creveld. Chapter V Russian Roulette.

Operation Barbarossa and Germany's Defeat in the East. David Stahel. Chapter 3 The impossible equation - the logistics and supply of Barbarossa.

Historical Division US Army Europe. Monograph of Generalmajor Alfred Toppe. T-8 Problems of Supply in Far-Reaching Operations.

Historical Division US Army Europe. Monograph of Generalleutnant Max Hermann Bork. T-7 Comments on Russian Railroads and Highways.

From Peace to War. Germany, Soviet Russia and the World, 1939-1941. Klaus Schüler. The Eastern Campaign as a Transportation and Supply Problem.

The Most Valuable Asset of the Reich: A History of the German National Railway Volume 2: 1933–1945. Alfred C. Mierzejewski. Chapter 3.B The Attack on the Soviet Union and the Winter Crisis, 1941-1942.

In the midst of the mud slinging I wanted to say thank you for suggesting these. I've read Stahel and Supplying War: Wallenstein to Patton just landed on my doorstep last night. Will look into the others!